Episode 13: Mental wellness during COVID-19 (with Greg McDonnell)

Registered counsellor Greg McDonnell joins the Mayor on episode 13 to discuss mental wellness in the community during COVID-19.

Greg has extensive experience offering psychotherapy for youth, young adults and adults, family therapy, critical incident response and sport performance counselling and offers his insights to help individuals build resilience during challenging times.

They discuss the importance of self-care during the pandemic, Greg’s hope equation, normalizing grief and anxiety, and finding creative ways to stay connected while we are physically apart. 

Transcript

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Narrator:   0:02
The Whistler Podcast. Candid conversations about everything Whistler. With host Mayor, Jack Crompton. 

Mayor Crompton:   0:09
Hello everyone, welcome to the Whistler Podcast. Thanks for joining us. I am Jack Crompton. I would like to acknowledge as we always do, that we live, we work, we play on the traditional territory of the Lillooet Nation and the Squamish Nation. We're grateful to them. I also want to thank Mountain FM for their support in producing the Whistler Podcast remotely during our COVID-19 time apart.  We look forward to getting back into their studio in the middle of the village. Today I am really pleased to be speaking to Greg McDonnell. Greg is a familiar face in the community as a registered counselor.  He offers psychotherapy for youth, young adults and adults. He also does family therapy, critical incident response and sport performance counseling. He has a master's degree in Education Counseling from the University of Victoria, 15 years of experience as a youth outreach worker, and he led Whistler Community Services Society for five years as the Executive Director. That is a long list of things you have done, Greg. Welcome

Greg McDonnell:   1:15
Thanks Jack. Thanks for having me.  

Mayor Crompton:   1:17
I want us to start like we do with everyone. What's your history? History with Whistler and why Whistler? What made you find yourself here today chatting to me?

Greg McDonnell:   1:26
Well, I guess it was love of snow. I've been here 25 years now, and that was before mountain biking was around.  I was literally one of those kids with 50 bucks in a backpack, and I think with a dose of good timing and some good luck, and also,  to acknowledge some really hard work on my part, I've managed to stay here. I've been really fortunate to make that work.

Mayor Crompton:   2:48
Yeah, that 50 bucks in a backpack, I think,  is such a rich part of our history. The people that have started here as skiers and backpackers, mountain bikers and stuck around. You're right to note that point that it's hard work to stay in any community, but certainly it's an achievement to still be here.

Greg McDonnell:   2:48
Yeah, I do recall around that time when I moved, there was a bit of a cultural viewpoint of young adults in town that they weren't really part of the community, that they were transient workers. Right? And and I think through the lot of the work at Whistler Community Services in those early days, among other great programs in the community, I think there was a great cultural shift there towards seeing the sort of work force as an integral part of our community.

Mayor Crompton:   2:48
Yeah. Our community so much richer when we acknowledge that deep, important link to Vancouver and those families that have second homes here,  that deep and important link to the workforce that's here for six months or six years or longer.  I think we missed something important about our community when we don't acknowledge that we're fairly diverse. And sometimes that diversity is easy to miss. Cool. All right, well, let's move into what's happening around town. I think that everything right now is framed in the frame of covert 19. So I wanted to give a quick update as to where things are at as far municipalities concerns. We've had an Emergency Operation Center that's been going on for the past five weeks. RMOW staff have been dedicated to managing COVID-19 impacts. I think all organizations have been doing the same. Trying to understand what it means to live in this new world in the sort of immediate health and safety time that we're in right now. But then also, turning our minds to what this looks like moving forward.  There is a total of 46 RMOW staff that have been redeployed throughout the organization, some working with the food bank. There's been a really neat connection between the RMOW and Whistler Community Services partnering on delivering food bank services. The food bank has actually moved from the home of Whistler Community Services into the Whistler Conference Center, which was a huge project.  I think a really important one. It gave us capacity to serve the community, then just turning our minds to, you know, how do we provide services in a physically distanced way, looking at trails, parks, all of those things that sustain mental and physical health, provided in a way, but takes seriously our need to be physically distance. So that's kind of an update of where we're at. We're going back to normal operations in some ways, but still, with a real mind towards the impacts of physical distancing. Budget update will be taking place very shortly. Have you been out on your bike?

Greg McDonnell:   5:23
You know, just a few times. I twisted my ankle, so I've been doing some home rehab. Most times I have been on my bike have been with my 10 year old, which was fun. But just riding the Valley Trails and Lost Lake. Cut your bars and kill me, thrill me that are lower down in the valley and less snow. It's been interesting watching the shift in the mountain bike community with how we behave on trails relative to physical distancing and also, while respecting the trails. I know from a WORCA perspective and wanting to minimize damage with all the melting snow etcetera. How about you. Have you been on your bike?

Mayor Crompton:   6:06
Yes. The conversation right now is do  we shift some of these trails to one way trails, which you know some people are of the opinion that they have always been one way trails. I'm going the wrong way on a trail. But that, I think, maybe something that, you know, WORCA and the Municipality put their minds too. Does there need to be some thought put to one way trails moving forward?  

Greg McDonnell:   6:29
Yeah, it's a good idea.  

Mayor Crompton:   6:31
The second piece of community update I wanted to share was that the Community Enrichment Program has been adjusted fairly significantly by Council on Tuesday night. We have made the difficult decision to take the full amount of funds that we have at this point and shift it all towards social services. That means that at this point, there is no funding going towards sports, arts, environmental management, and those groups are in a holding pattern as we make sure that the Howe Sound Women's Center, Pathways Serious Mental Illness Society,  Sea to Sky Community Services, Whistler Community Foundation, Whistler Community Services Society, Whistler Multi Cultural Society and Zero Ceiling are all well funded so that they conserve those people in our town who really need that kind of service in the midst of of this challenge. We have decided that we may, and likely will, come back to those other programs later in the year, and consider funding when we have a better idea as to what physical distancing will mean for how we live together.  I was interested just from your perspective, I imagine, as we made that decision,  the challenge for me was that arts, environment andsport are crucial to our mental health. And so, in some ways, that decision was more difficult for me because, yes, we definitely need to ensure that the social service agencies are well funded, but, there are challenges with taking money that generally supports our physical and mental health away from those organizations. I wonder your thoughts on that.

Greg McDonnell:   8:22
I think that was probably some difficult triage work that you probably had to do, and your team had to do.  It sounds like you've approached it wisely. Not easy news, perhaps, for some of those groups. But, you know, necessity mother of invention.  I think the many parts of the fabric of Whistler Community maybe we talk about a little bit later are going to be really tested right now, and I think crisis reveals character. Crisis reveals character. And so, a lot of these things are not going away forever. Like the way Community Enrichment Fund perhaps has traditionally been allocated. It's about  repurposing it with a different triage lens. As you indicated, you know, like earlier coming back to some of that funding later in the summer as we know what the province is gonna tell us we can do in terms of turning back to a form of the old life we lived. It's not gonna be the same old life. This one's going to stick with our psyche for a while. So it sounds like that was just a triage thing that you have to do, and it sounds like you approached it wisely.

Mayor Crompton:   9:41
And the final piece I just want to let everyone know is that we have our new Chief Administrative Officer Ginny Cullen, started on Monday, which is exciting. The Chief Administrative Officer is the person who runs the day to day operations of Municipality, leads the organization. She's been embedded in the organization for the last four weeks, watching it all happen, and really learning, which it's a unique opportunity. Not often does the new person step in and get to watch some of the organization work like she's had the opportunity to do, so certainly it feels like she's more prepared than she would have been otherwise to step into the role and to lead on day one, which is interesting. Looking forward to getting to know her, looking forward to working with her. Have you bumped into Jeremy and Virginia at all?

Greg McDonnell:   10:33
No I haven't, but I'm looking forward to.

Mayor Crompton:   10:37
Yeah, they've been around for a couple years, so it's kind of it's fascinating. You know, a role like that typically is not one that is hired from within a small town. Generally, it is someone coming from outside. So one of the benefits that was an exciting part of it was that they are local folks.

Greg McDonnell:   11:00
I think one of the assets that Whistler has, one of our strengths, is we've got a lot of talent here.  So hearing that Ginny and her family were from here is encouraging because I think we we don't need to pay someone to move here from back east or wherever, because we know this community well.

Mayor Crompton:   11:22
I agree. So let's move into why we wanted to talk to you. I think that probably one of the biggest challenges that we face is our mental health around dealing with something that's so unfamiliar, like this isolation and separation between human beings. You just mentioned when we were talking earlier about crisis reveals character, and I'm interested in that. There's a lot of scholarship that individual community strengths and weaknesses before disasters, so what you go into a disaster with is very much revealed. How do you suggest people access their strengths and minimize their weaknesses during a disaster or can we even? I mean, it feels to me like if really crisis reveals character, then are we stuck with what we went in with, or is there ways that we can respond well?

Greg McDonnell:   12:26
I think quite strongly that responding well is in our DNA. I think that we are wired for self protection and we are wired to healthfully self protect in a way where we get to discharge all the yucky bits that might stick with us from a trauma such that we can carry on living highly functional lives. We are wired for this and I think it's in us intuitively. I think sometimes our weakness is that we have old behaviour patterns that we can get stuck in when we're in a trauma response and we fight when we should flee or we freeze when we should flee or whatever. So we pick the wrong response. And so, you had asked me a question off line about grief and loss relative to pandemics versus straight up emergency.  I think with a pandemic, you know, we've all kind of witnessed a real slow moving of the needle in terms of how we're gonna respond to this. I think some people have wound up in denial about it a little bit, in terms of do they socially distance and is this really a big deal. And so there's this real slow burn approach to discharging the sort of the stock energy that would come from experiencing trauma. Whereas if you experience an emergency, like right quick, unexpected in your face, like the body just goes to this this very intuitive way of taking care of itself, which tends to be good for us. We discharge that stuck trauma energy in the process of self protecting, and then we feel quite empowering. And then, as a species, we can come heal and reform.

Mayor Crompton:   14:24
And the slow burn that we're experiencing now, I guess, would allow for  more consciousness to be attached to.

Greg McDonnell:   14:33
It could, but I was thinking it could also allow for more denial. Right? And I think there is a bit of a philosophical belief of mine.  I think we as a society, and maybe before COVID-19, we'd all agree that the world was heading to a cliff in some regards. And so this has caused the world to take this big pause. And we've seen some of the commentaries out there about that, and maybe even some of the funny memes that tell us that we're not so in control, and Mother Earth will decide for us. There's these sort of uncomfortable truths that were forced to, except that chaos is a normal part of the human exams and the old version of the way we were living with this chaos denial,  we're just gonna keep living the way we're living, and keep investing the way we invest, and keep those ways of thinking that perhaps we were in denial of, and now we're forced to look at those and to adjust. I think, again, this is going to really test Whistler's character because we're forced to adjust how we look at, as an example, our dependence on flight tourism versus that rubber tire tourism. So again, that philosophical viewpoint that there's these uncomfortable truths that we perhaps are in denial of and COVID is forcing us to accept that these are truths and we can handle that. 

Mayor Crompton:   16:14
And you can respond well and poorly whether the crisis is emergent or a slow burn. Just because it's one or the other doesn't mean that you have to respond. 

Greg McDonnell:   16:23
Absolutely I couldn't agree more.

Mayor Crompton:   16:26
So you and I are a part of a new online service that's called the Sea to Sky Healing Project where they'll be opportunities to share some of what we're reading and what we're listening to. You being a professional and me not, I'd encourage people to pay attention to what you share. What kind of stuff will you be sharing on the Sea to Sky Healing Project?

Greg McDonnell:   16:53
The website is meant to be a bit of a storage house, I believe.  I really like to acknowledge the work of Dave Clark and the energy of Dave in putting this together. It's really his genesis. I believe it's a bit of a storing house for tools. A tool kit for how we might take care of ourselves in a difficult time.  I think in it you will find a whole bunch of resources, videos, podcast links, quotes, books and insights to consider around creating self care in your day to day life.

Mayor Crompton:   17:33
On there, there's a quote from you about your hope equation. Tell me about your hope equation.

Greg McDonnell:   17:39
Yeah. I've been really thinking about hope also through that lens of the uncomfortable truth, because I don't think we wanna have pollyannaish type home, where we think everything's going be rainbows and butterflies. I think hope is accepting that there's chaos in the human experience, and also knowing that chaos kind of looks like this. There's this birth. There's this rise to greatness where the plateau's enjoyed, and that plateau can go for a good, long time or it could be quite brief. And then there's a very expected crash burn, fiery death, and sometimes that death is figurative. You know, the leaves, they fall off the trees. Or sometimes that death is literal. We die, right. But what tends to follow that Jack, what would you say follows that pattern 100% of the time?

Mayor Crompton:   18:32
Following death. Rebirth?  

Greg McDonnell:   18:35
Rebirth, exactly, precisely. So this uncomfortable truth actually asked that we accept that there's a rebirth out there someone, and I find that incredibly hopeful. So when trauma and drama and chaos show up, it's OK. We're wired to handle it, but I want to mobilize to find where is the life enhancing thing that I could take away from this, and what is the life enhancing thing I can take away from this, and where is the rebirth? Getting back to the question on hope, I think there's really three things that give us hope. Number one is having a set of personal values. A deeply entrenched set of values that you live by.  I've worked a ton with youth and young adults, and I think sometimes young adults in particular are kind of the way their brain development is happening. They're not thinking about that kind of stuff very often because they're invincible, right? And so a lot of the work I'm doing with young adults is really getting them to be curious about their personal values. When you look at families,  I think families have family values and cultures. I think we're all learning with some awesome wisdom, for instance, about some of the indigenous principles. And I know the Lillooet Nation has some amazing principles, six of them, that  I might touch on today, that really helped mobilize us towards those values. Okay, so we need values. Second thing we need is a sense of purpose and meaning in our lives. We become depressed and anxious when there's no purpose and meaning. And so I'm really inviting people.  And this is why, on social media, we're seeing people baking bread, and learning how to play the ukulele, and all this gardening, this is because they're doing a bit of a deep dive into other identity structures that define them as people, and that is hope inspiring. That's rebirth, right? And so we have values, we have purpose and meaning, and lastly, we will dig into this a little bit. What gives us hope is having a sense of community.  Having your people, having your lifetime people that you can depend on and your emerging people who come to light during chaos. So values, purpose and meaning, and community really give us a sense of hope. But again, not pollyannish hope. Not the idea that once this is gone, life's going to go back to normal. It's gonna be a new version of normal.

Mayor Crompton:   21:04
I agree with you, and I think that one of the things that's been very interesting about this has been rebirth, and the opportunity that's on the other side of this as it relates to environmentalism, as it relates to community building, as it relates to adjust recovery. If there's such a concept, I hope there is. That's something that's really been sitting in my head. But I wonder, can we move too quickly to the opportunity. I just wonder if part of that whole process, there's mourning in it at some point and mourning the loss and the devastation. I mean, I walked through the village and to see it vacant, and to see the impacts of COVID 19 is extremely visceral and painful, and I'm tempted often to jump to opportunity, which feels, in some ways, to me like an avoidance of moment mourning.  Is that fair?

Greg McDonnell:   22:08
I think it's your body's natural response in an unusual predicament, and that might be simple terms, like just a fight response to get the wheels back on the bus, and I think that's authentic. You bring up a really good point, which is we need to normalize the grief, and normalize our visceral feelings that come with witnessing what we're witnessing. And we need to find a way to speak of it, and to discharge how we feel about it. Because if we don't get that form of healthy discharge and we just get busy, busy making, that's how post traumatic stress works. That's how in the future down the track, that some of that old charge that lives in your nervous system wants to leak out,

Mayor Crompton:   23:03
So, if you're jumping to the rebuild and ignoring the mourning and the pain, that's troubling. But if you're acknowledging the the pain while jumping to the recovery, that is making more sense.

Greg McDonnell:   23:21
Yes. I think that would be quite wise. And I think, you know, with grief and loss, a simple way to put it - this is the way I put it for kids, is there's a severe disorganisation that goes on, there's a transition, and then there's a reorganization. I think we're wired to reorganize. We're wired that way. That's our resiliency coming out.  For instance, you're going there in your brain, Jack, that tells me that, you know, there's been 4 to 6 weeks of this disorganization. There's been lots of transition or transitionary dialogue,  and now it's like, all right, time to roll our sleeves up, put the work boots on and jump in the trench. Those people, I want on my team, who are willing to do that. 

Mayor Crompton:   24:10
So there's a real sense now of we're all in this together, I mean globally, but also locally, but at the same time, we can't actually be together. There's this sort of cognitive dissidents of "Yeah, Greg, I know we're in it together," but the physical in together is gone, and that felt strange to me. Do you see anything in that from a psychological perspective?

Greg McDonnell:   24:40
Oh, my gosh. Totally. We are hard wired for connection and  we are tribal in nature. You didn't see one cave man or cave women. There was a group because we needed each other to protect our food source and protect the kids and to move around in a nomadic fashion. We are tribal in nature. I think that's a big part of this grief and loss right now, that we're all experiencing. It's how do we get the wheels back on the bus? And I really got my eyes on teenagers now because teenagers really need each other as they practice launching into the world, and those folks being asked to isolate is really hard on them. It is really hard on them.  I'm reading lots of interesting stuff about new lenses to look at technology as an example.  Not everybody, but lots of people have been sort of saying over the years, we gotta minimize exposure for kids to tech, but now we are saying, "hey, let's get them on tech, cause that's where schools out" thing and so we're all kind of pivoting our way of thinking about that, and I think we can use some creative ways that way to connect with people. You know, the other day I was walking down part of the dyke, over between White Gold and Spruce Grove and someone's painted all these rocks with these lovely words inscribed on them and painted on them. And so that was a message, you know, for for the community to read those rocks. It was obviously done by some kids and maybe some parents, but that gives me hope like they're communicating with me. That's my community speaking my language. So that's happened without even seeing them.

Mayor Crompton:   26:41
It's very concrete and physical as well, those rocks, you know. It feels like someone's hands were on it, that my community did that, they're saying hope to me. That's been one way that I've felt physically connected to our community in that time of confusion about those two things, the physical and the emotional. You talked about the challenges that youth and young adults face. Admittedly, as a father of four kids between the ages of 11 and 17, I'm pretty focused on the impact on kids with the loss of spring and maybe the leak into summer.  What are you looking for as it relates to the impact on our kids and how we should respond.

Greg McDonnell:   27:33
You know, I think they're tremendous sponges, and if our nervous system is regulated, their nervous system is regulated, so our job as parents is to really help them regulate their nervous system. And, you know, again, crisis reveals character. So if we're going to run around with our hair on fire, our kids are going to run around with their hair on fire. So if our job as parents is to regulate our kids, our jobs as a community is to regulate our community. And I think with kids you want to really normalize feelings. You want to really allow them an opportunity to regulate, and sometimes that happens in not great ways, right? Maybe some parents over there seeing some poor behavior or some regression, aggressive behavior, so I really invite you to be curious about that behavior and not judgmental of it, because the curiosity will help you build your empathy and compassion for the position they are in.  You know, when we tell them, "look, I'm almost 50 years old, and I have never been in a position like this in my life," my kid hears that, and he's like, "what? Really?" I think if you can help them find a way to express that charge that's living in their nervous system as they navigate this. And that might be through movement, that might be through arts like the family that did those rocks out on the dyke. That might be through talking about this. I think it's definitely about minimizing exposure to these news feeds. You know Dave Clark with the Sea to Sky Healing Project,  we've talked about that quite a bit, and I know he has a comment on there about as an adult, if you need to know what's going on with the provincial health authority or with the municipality or whatever it is, you know, Dave's sort of saying dip in there three times a day maximum. For me, I read that I was like, OK, fair enough. But for me, it's once.  I also personally need one or two days where I don't look into it at all. I think we have to really not have that stuff blaring on the background with our kids. The other thing I think for kids, is that early period of disorganization that's going on here,  I think we're wanting to help them reorganize and regulate, and so a routine and a schedule is really recommended, okay. And really collaborating with your kids on that. You're not gonna shove the schedule down their throat. You're gonna ask them to contribute to what the schedule looks like. I learned a lesson with that on my own kid cause, you know, over controlling, okay, I get to be a teacher to here to, Teacher Greg. That didn't go over so well. 

Mayor Crompton:   30:32
Your 10 year old doesn't want a psychologist?

Greg McDonnell:   30:35
No, probably not. Although hopefully I am raising him to be a sensitive nineties man.  A guy with high emotional intelligence. So those routines, I think, are really important, and one of the things I've learned with a 10 year old is is that that's gotta include a lot of movement because the movement allows for that physical discharge and I think really helps with the regulation.

Mayor Crompton:   31:03
One of my favorite concepts is the Jewish concept of Sabbath, because it puts a rhythm into your life that is focused around rest and family and community. The concept of Sabbath directly translated is plenty of space, plenty of physical space, but also for the unfolding of life. And when you are inserting a day a week into your life, where you're focused on spending time with your family having other families over for dinner and it comes every week, you're sort of internally committed to rest.  For the first two weeks for our family, there was zero schedule. I mean, to be fair, it was March break, so we didn't really have plans to be on a schedule, but it was really unsettling and one of the first things we did is decide that we're going to set aside a day, even though there's very little happening, you know, we're going to rest once of week, and we're going to be committed to that rest. And, like you say, it's time away from devices and news feeds. It's time away from life, as it usually is. That's been helpful. That's been helpful for us to have that rhythm, and like you say, scheduled throughout the rest of the week. I think our schools have been good at tying families into that rhythm, getting classes operational and running

Greg McDonnell:   32:51
And I couldn't agree more. And I think that really takes a tuning to the energy. And again, the way the world was working before frequency as a society and a culture and a planet, it was just like on hyper warp speed and so, that's perhaps one of the positives of this is we slow down, and we tune into that energy a little bit and let it guide us in terms of what we need.

Mayor Crompton:   33:15
I was reading an article this week that talked about how the primary stress for seniors right now is around their health, and the primary stress for young people is financial and social, and the numbers were widely divergent. It's interesting to me how the exact same event can be experienced by different demographics so differently. So I'm wondering, in your view, you council people throughout the spectrum. Do you do that differently? And what are your thoughts around the same stress impacting different demographics?

Greg McDonnell:   33:52
Yes, good observation. And yes, you're right. I think it is quite interesting in society how we see those different reactions. And I think that's largely influenced by people's stage of life and maybe some brain development for young young adults. But, yeah, stage of life considerations. Certainly you account for that and a person's story and experience and inner knowledge and wisdom when you meet with them. But, yes, stage of life, each person is gonna have a different lens of approaching this.

Mayor Crompton:   38:10
So we've talked a lot about grief and loss today. I think one of the visceral experiences people have is anxiety and uncertainty, and I'm wondering how you help people deal with that.

Greg McDonnell:   38:10
My first step is to always totally normalize anxiety. It's a good thing. It's part of being human. If you didn't have anxiety, you would be an alien or a piece of cardboard. I often say that. And so, I normalize anxiety, especially with teenagers who get really overwhelmed. Sometimes with the strong feelings that come with feeling anxiety, I help remind them that this is their bodies self protective mechanism doing its job. And so we normalize it. I think sometimes our anxieties can become heightened or amplified by two big steps. Number one is we tend to distort a narrative, or we tell ourselves a narrative that's negative, and then that gains a bit of a root in our neural pathways in our brain. And that's like a muscle. When that gets overdeveloped, our thought patterns tend to get stuck there. So I often work with people, who first of all, use these mindfulness strategies, getting the body in the here and now, so it's some breath work with sensory awareness, check in with some grounding, because what happens right away with that, is your brain wave activity moves from the front part of the brain, which is where all the distortions live. And it moves to the back part of the brain where the nervous system feels safe and worthy of love and belonging. If you feel safe for the love and belonging, you can come out of that kind of hyper vigilant place. And now you know, the narratives were perhaps a little bit less distorted because we get a brain power back. We're operating in that hypervigilant place. Often it's brainpower is quite low because of our physiological activation. So my work is around helping people settle that nervous system down, first of all, and then secondarily really getting on top of that narrative. What's the story you're telling yourself about this predicament? Are you future rising trauma?  Which in the grief and loss world we call anticipatory loss. So if you're walking around through the day and dissipating all the bad stuff that could go on, your anxiety meter is getting jacked up. That's thingamajig number one that really amplifies anxiety. Thingamajig number two that really amplifies anxiety is avoidant behaviour. If we tend to avoid the very thing that's making us feel vulnerable, it's long term. It kind of makes us more fragile. These people, as opposed to actually turning toward the very thing that's making us feel vulnerable. That's my other hot tip. If I would be doing this with a client, I wouldn't be asking them to turn toward the anxiety provoking thing too much too soon, because that could really amplify and distort the nervous system. But it's bit by bit because when you turn toward that, that thing with a certain behavior, the nervous system gains some empowerment, or real belief that "Hey, that wasn't so bad," and I can actually do more next time. And so when we have a positive narrative and we're willing to take calculated risks with our vulnerability, then I think we can really be on top of those anxieties again, which are normal. Was your body's normal reaction to some abnormal event?

Mayor Crompton:   38:11
Yeah, that's good. You talked about grounding behaviors. Is that like I kick a soccer ball around or I do something physical or draw or paint?

Greg McDonnell:   38:19
It could be grounding, that could be grounding, but I would put those in the category of moving type of meditations. And I, you know, I love riding my mountain bike or skiing, and I tell you when I'm doing that, you know there's no bills, there's no family of origin issues. It's just you and the smell of the dirt, the temperature and the birds. And so when you get the body with movement in that space, it's quite settling. But you can also ground by not moving at all. By feeling your feet connected to the earth by doing some belly breathing. And, of course, these are yoga principles that are 5000 years old. And speaking with some of our Lillooet neighbors, their six learning principles are really grounded, and grounding the nervous system as well. So these skill sets are right around us and ready for us to use as resources.

Mayor Crompton:   40:34
It's great. Stories of people, family, our community coping well. In the midst of this, I'd love to hear your stories. 

Greg McDonnell:   40:34
I think there are a lot of positive stories about people coping really well, you know. Yesterday I had a zoom meeting with about 37 teachers. And I tell you, those folks are adapting really well in uncertain circumstances to try to figure out how they connect with kids and how they engage them and make meaningful learning processes and how they normalize their feelings and all those things. And I've been really, really encouraged by that, you know? And I have certainly been encouraging. Again, crisis reveals character.  I've been really encouraged by some of the fundraising efforts going on in the corridor here to really take care of our people. And, you know, we're lucky. We come from a place that there are also people here who struggle, and so to see the mobilization that has really amassed to respond to that has been super inspiring. 

Mayor Crompton:   40:34
It's like those rocks I find those fundraising efforts is very physical. I'm part of something greater, and we're doing something to respond because when the request of us is to stay home and do very little, opportunities to do something are incredibly helpful. I want to finish up with our community. You talked at the beginning about death and rebirth and the opportunities that exist. What do you see on the other side of this for the town you love? What are the opportunities that you'd like to see us take up, and how could we be different and better on the other side? It can be psychological for sure, but I'm wondering about you is a Whistlerite.

Greg McDonnell:   41:25
It is a broad question and I could go on for with a couple of different themes. But I think we're going to come out of this really well connected as a community, really integrated with what our values and principles are in terms of what direction we're going to go as a resort community, because those are two things that are quite interdependent as we hope to see the economy come back. Then I think the economy will come back well and strong, and I firmly believe that. And I think us British Columbians are all so addicted to our lifestyle, so when Dr. Bonnie Henry opens the tap, I think Whistler could be quite busy.  But it's how we engage that busyness relative to the environment, relative to our cultures around us, relative to you know how we want to live the next decade. That will remain to be seen with a lot of, I think, importance. I'm really optimistic about the community's ability to do that with a thoughtful, mindful way as opposed to a rushed way. 

Mayor Crompton:   42:47
We've got such a legacy of shared planning. I just think of the Whistler 2020 process where you know people with different insights about how our community ticks coming together to share that with each other and to have you know, the hotelier, and the waste manager and the psychotherapist sit around a table and share their perspectives about what Whistler is at its best is a legacy that we can and we have to draw on. So I agree with you. The challenge, in fact, I think you point to. When we open up, I expect that people will want nothing more than fresh air, mountains, opportunities to be with people. And so it will be how we respond to lots of people rather than isolation, like we have been doing.

Greg McDonnell:   43:43
And that really resonates with that rebirth process. But because when we connect with nature deeply on that level and we seek space for quietness, we become witness to that rebirth right before our eyes and I, for one, have been totally inspired by spring this year, perhaps more than any other years, because I've needed to bear witness to the hummingbirds coming back, the crocus, the robins, and the snow melting because it kind of gives me this deep sense that everyone's gonna be okay, right? Different, but okay. And so seeking that space required,  Whistler has always been able to provide that for people, and I know we will be ready to do that soon.

Mayor Crompton:   44:29
I agree. I just want to say to the community to FireSmart your yard when you're standing around there listening to the birds and watching the crocuses grow, because this promises to be another dry summer, and we wanna have a safe community as it relates to a wildfire. That was a commercial in the midst of this podcast. Public service announcement.  And, just to finish up if someone needs help, what resources exist for them in this community that they can access?

Greg McDonnell:   45:00
Well, there are a ton of lovely resources out there, and I'm probably going to forget a few, but from the talk, I think the outreach workers with Whistler Community Services Society, the Food Bank, How Sound Women's Center. There's a lovely program run through the House and Women's Center called the Peace Program, and this is for Children who witness abuse. We know chaos brings out a lot of interesting behaviors in society and one of those domestic violence. So I think we're going to see an uptick in this one. You know, Whistler and Sea to Sky is no different than any other community in that way, and that's something I think we've learned in the last several recent years, actually, is that we have spousal abuse, right? We have family violence. We have food bank. We have a ton of children that access the food back. And so I think we've come a long way in acknowledging that. There's several therapists available in Whistler who are accessible through counseling subsidies and different extended benefit programs. I've actually been toying with the idea. Do you remember with Peanuts and Charlie Brown. Lucy had the five cents therapy booth? When this gets loosened up a little bit, I've been toying with some way of providing free counseling in the library or at the celebration Plaza in little 15 minute chunks, just at a picnic table. Picnic table therapy.

Mayor Crompton:   46:36
You have to set up like the Lucy Booth at the Lost Lake Passive House there, and you have to charge five cents. Someone has to find a nickel and give it to you. So where can people find you?

Greg McDonnell:   46:45
If you just google Greg McDonnell, Whistler, Counselor, I'll come up. And as I said, there's a number of other amazing counselors available in Whistler as well. 

Mayor Crompton:   47:01
Greg, thank you. This was fascinating and and and encouraging and inspiring. I'm so grateful for the work that you do in this town How you care for us, how you give us insights into who we are as individuals and as a community. You do terrific work, and we are grateful for it. So thank you so much.

Greg McDonnell:   47:25
Thank you, Jack. And thank you for having me and to Kristen and Cole for putting this together.

Mayor Crompton:   47:31
Yeah, I agree. So a final thank you to Mountain FM for their continued support for the Whistler Podcast. Thanks for listening. I'm Jack Crompton. See you next time.

Narrator:   47:41
You've been listening to the Whistler Podcast. Candid conversations about everything Whistler. To find out more about the Whistler Podcast, visit whistler.ca/whistlerpodcast