Episode 16: Thinking differently (with Val Litwin)

Mayor Crompton connects with Val Litwin on episode 16 of the Whistler Podcast to discuss restarting business in Whistler and BC.

Val is the former CEO of the Whistler Chamber of Commerce and  has been the President and CEO of the BC Chamber of Commerce since September 2016.

They discuss Val’s experience leading BC’s biggest business organization, improved access policy makers during COVID-19 and rebuilding BC’s economy.

Whistler is one of many provincial tourism-dependent communities impacted by COVID-19, and Val suggests ways to respond and mitigate challenges. 

Listen and subscribe on your favorite streaming platform or visit whistler.ca/WhistlerPodcast.

Transcript

Narator: 0:02

The Whistler Podcast, candid conversations about everything Whistler, with host Mayor Jack Crompton.

Mayor Crompton: 0:09

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Whistler Podcast. Thanks for joining us, I'm Jack C rompton. As always, we a cknowledged that we live, we work, we play on the traditional territories of the Lil'wat Nation and the Squamish Nation. We are grateful to be able to have this conversation in this place. I also want to thank Mountain FM for their support in producing the Whistler Podcast remotely during COVID-19, but hopefully back in studio at some point soon. Today, I am so pleased to be speaking with a good friend of mine and probably a good friend of yours. Val Litman now has been the president and CEO of the BC Chamber of Commerce since he left us in September, 2016. One element of his impressive resume is his role as CEO of the Whistler Chamber of Commerce for three years. Some of his notable accomplishments with the Whistler Chamber i ncludes growing its membership base, launching world-class educational partnership with the d istrict and School of Business at the University of Victoria, and really reinvigorating our Chambers brand. You did such good work here. We are all so grateful for it. And thanks for checking back in with me and with us. Welcome Val.

Val Litman: 1:20

Hey, thanks Jack. It's an honor to be here. Well, mind you, I have to call you your worship now, right? That has changed since I left

Mayor Crompton: 1:27

You just leave that one out of today's conversation anyway.

Val Litman: 1:30

It's a pleasure to be here, Jack. So yeah, excited for the conversation. Let's let's take it where we need to take it.

Mayor Crompton: 1:35

All right. Sounds good. We start with Whistler news and I'll just go through these things. And if you want to jump in and ask any questions, please do. I want to start by saying that we are now in Phase Two of the BC restart plan and soon to be in Phase Three. While business began to reopen our focus remains on delivering a safe tourism experience. The RMOW have assembled the provincial guidelines to help businesses reopen safely. And if there are people running businesses, listening, you can find that information at whistler.ca/saferestart. The RMOW reopened municipal hall on June 1st to allow for the public to access in person payments and purchases, if they need to. You're encouraged to access those services, including property tax payment, online through western.ca/ onlineservices. You're also encouraged to get outside and use our parks and trails. Please make sure that you continue to physically distances. That's going to be crucial as we move forward as a community. Last night, two things I want to mention about our council meeting. We adjusted the RMOW asphalt procurement policy to allow for the purchase of asphalt from within Whistler. This decision will be reviewed in a year with the intent of understanding what impacts this change has made. Council's eager to work with Alpine paving to limit impacts to Checkamus Crossing residents. Council considered an approval wide range of changes to restaurant patios. We'll be streamlining the approval process for temporary patio, expansions and staff. We will be able to approve those rather than having to have them go to council. Val, before we got on you and I were talking, you mentioned sacred cows, and I think that's a tiny one. The fact that patio expansions take a long time generally to go through. And one of the changes that we've made, that's very small, but it could get bigger is this idea that restaurants will be able to come in, get it approved and move forward and, and really move into the new world with some pace. What are some other sacred cows that you're seeing opportunity in seeing leave us as a part of this whole process?

Val Litman: 3:50

Yeah, it's such a fun, fascinating conversation. So much of moving through the crisis hasn't been fun. Obviously this has been probably one of the most grim times we've ever had to bear witness to, and certainly for all our members and businesses in Whistler, but around the province. We're nowhere near through this either. So it's a dark, dark phase for us economically and socially right now, as we move through it. But I think one of the opportunities and you hear a lot of people talking about, if, if there's a chance here in crisis to build out of crisis, something new, something different, something that puts us on a different track into the future. I would say one of the categories of opportunity within that is we could actually slay some sacred cows. We could do some bold work and we could tackle some intractable problems we've been dealing with in BC for decades. And some of them in particular, some of them are felt at the community level. Most acutely I'm thinking here of things like affordable housing, issues around zoning, et cetera, et cetera. So, yo u k n ow, that for me is a, is a big one, Jack, I think there is going to be a real need coming out of this for more affordable housing. You know, in crisis like this, people are losing their jobs, massive economic disruption, you've got vulnerable populations becoming more vulnerable and certain people that were at a certain level or s tatus before the crisis ha ve m aybe dr opped d own a few rungs. So we need to be thinking about supports and how we invigorates and make more resilient. Our local communities, housing is one of those things in zoning and how we tackle that challenge is probably more pressing than ever. So ou r p oliticians, elected officials, are they ready to spend the political capital to make some tough decisions? That's the big million dollar question, but I, what I would say is there's a backdrop now from a larger voting population standpoint where citizens are looking at their leaders and saying, I expect you now to make big, bold moves and investments to fix some of these issues. An other o ne is inter-provincial trade. I mean, we've been bickering in C anada's provinces and territories forever about how we move beer and wine between our provinces is just one example. It's ridiculous that I drive over the Alberta border and I can get a cheaper six pack th en h ere in BC. And we've got all these odd tariffs and barriers to trade in Canada. It's easier to ship a beer and into Munich, Germany, the home of beer and compete and do well than it is to try and ship a beer across to Quebec or Ontario. So how do we, how do we remove some of those barriers of inter-provincial trade here in Canada?

Mayor Crompton: 6:26

Is that a function of import export laws that it's easier to get it to Germany than it is to Alberta?

Val Litman: 6:35

Well, I mean Canada has pretty amazing free trade agreements now with Europe as an example with SITA or the Pacific Rim with the Trans Pacific partnership. So we've got a lot more access to global markets than we used to even just a couple of years ago, but the more fundamental issue is we just have really old school, dark age kind of approach and tariffs and barriers within our own country. And so we hear that a lot from people. Um, but the reason this is so important as we create a new normal slaying those sacred cows is, which was the question and sorry, I'll try and be succinct now, is that we know in this new environment, shorter supply chains are gonna be key, right? Like one of the things we've seen that has really been a vulnerability for businesses through this is when you've got a global pandemic, supply chains that are global in nature, get disrupted, think about the limited, travel that's now taking place globally and the movement of goods and how that's all being impacted. Borders are closed. So in Canada, we should be thinking about business resilience and how we shorten up those supply chains for those goods that we need. So that's maybe an opportunity for us.

Mayor Crompton: 7:46

It's interesting, because there's a conversation around zoning and the process that it takes to get a project through public process that was happening before COVID-19. But I agree with you when you do look at the challenges that we'll face, you know, with international trade, and trying to revival autonomy, the opportunity to fix that does become more available in some ways. Have you been getting traction with that case that this is an opportunity to improve trade between provinces or public process?

Val Litman: 8:26

Yeah. And you know, this is something as local chamber members there in Whistler. If you're a member of your Whistler Chamber, the Whistler Chamber is a member of the BC Chamber, and they're also a member of the Canadian Chamber as are we. So, as a network, we are working on this one, this is a policy priority as we look to recovery and we look for low hanging fruit here in Canada to get the economy going to make it easier to operate a business and grow it here in Canada. So for sure that's something we're, we're collaborating the Canadian chamber and, and, you know, sending our policies and suggestions into Ottawa. I think we will see actually really good results there. I think we'll see things move quickly, because everyone's being forced to think differently now.

Mayor Crompton: 9:08

Yeah. So you left in 2016, you left Whistler 2016. What's been going on in your life personally since you broke up with us and moved to the big city.

Val Litman: 9:24

Well, I didn't get my own podcast. I don't know how you did that.

Mayor Crompton: 9:27

You're welcome to come and guest host.

Val Litman: 9:30

On the personal front I got married, I had a baby with my beautiful wife Joy, so we've got a baby boy now and he's thriving and hilarious and very loud. His name is Guy. So that's been very exciting and just added a ton of richness and excitement and fatigue to my life, but just such a joy. And then professionally moved to the BC Chamber here and have really been enjoying it. It's it's fulfilling work. I mean, it's tricky work. Melissa as the new CEO of the Whistler Chamber on the ground in your neck of the woods, you know how hard she works, you know, in your position as Mayor, these are interesting roles that we fill when we interface between the public or our members in this case and elected officials and advocating government for services or cutting red tape. So I really enjoyed it. I do think before COVID-19, I w ould h ave said we've got a lot of opportunity here in BC to continue to lead globally i n a bunch of different categories. And so it's been fun from an economic perspective, from a business perspective to be leading BC's biggest and b roadest business organization to help catalyze some of those changes as we l ook down the road. So it's been a fun couple of years and they've gone by in a flash. I wish though I could work remotely from W histler for sure.

Mayor Crompton: 10:57

How do you like big city living?

Val Litman: 10:59

Well, only a British Colombian could lament having to live in a big city like Vancouver. I mean, it's pretty amazing. The air is clean. You see the ocean, the sunsets are beautiful, the people are polite. It's awesome. We love it down here. I mean, we're very much mountain a nd ocean people, so I really do miss Whistler, but, Vancouver is such an incredible place and, you know, it's easy to run up the corridor or go South or go East or head over to the i slands. So, we've dug it, but, you know, you miss you miss that community feel when you leave a smaller town. That's what Whistler was for me, i s walking down the stroll and having spontaneous conversations with people. And, there is something special about that, and I think you get a different outcome when it comes to, you know, just happiness and community cohesion. When you can kind of take a quick stroll and bump into 10 friends, you can't do that in downtown Vancouver. It's not a strike against Vancouver, just the natural splendor of a small community. You just get that connectivity. I m iss that.

Mayor Crompton: 12:00

So let's get into our current reality around a province that is in some ways, I guess we've stopped a whole bunch of the economy. And as we try to reengage it through the BC restart plan, I wonder what the conversations that are happening around the tables that you are at are like. What is the conversation around rebuilding British Columbia economy?

Val Litman: 12:33

Yeah, I mean, so first of all, I mean, none of us have been through anything like this before, right. Global pandemic where there's a pretty much a total economic meltdown. The globe has seen pandemics before, but nothing quite like this in the modern and modern times that's impact of so significantly. So I think it's been about navigating crisis, right? And so I know as a leader, it's been about staying in that prefrontal cortex mode, as opposed to the amygdala, which is the fight or flight place. So figuring out how we can stay big picture to make the right decisions at the right time here as we move through crisis. But, suffice it to say so much of our time has been really around life support for business, you know, how do we get through the crisis to reopen and then from reopen to true recovery? So a lot of our time in the first 90 days, time and energy has been really spent around, mining data from our BC mind-reader platforms, understand what businesses are going through, what they need, and then immediately and quickly pivoting to the feds and the province to say, here's what we're hearing, here's the supports that are needed, or o f these programs that y ou've rolled out, here's how you need to trim c osts or change them to actually help these businesses. So it's been a unique time for us. We always work in policy and we always interface with government to make suggestions around, to cut cutting red tape. But it's always been about typically about making business easier or making a business better. We've been in a phase now where this is about how do we help businesses survive? I think now we're, we're beginning to move a little bit out of that, but I will say, and if you'll forgive the analogy, cause it sounds pretty crass, but we're actually still in the honeymoon period here. And I say that because the government financial taps are still flowing. We've got CERB, we've got wage subsidies, we've got commercial rent relief. When those stop, we will enter again, a new reality of crisis. And I know this is sort of heavy stuff to talk about, right. But I it's the reality we're in. So as we pivot out of crisis into recovery, now we're s aying a couple of things to government and again, as leaders trying to stay in that strategic longterm look is that first of all, we have to appreciate the recoveries that we were offering during crisis. Now they have to shift, they have to be different. So what sort of policy conversations do we need to be having, down the road and BC needs to stay competitive as well. And so what new hosting conditions do we need to create here in BC so entrepreneurs can thrive.

Mayor Crompton: 15:19

That's where my mind turns as well as towards what's next, because I assume that at some point, as you say, we will see some of these programs that have been crucial to maintaining, or just keeping businesses in business, will go away. And how do we ensure that we're prepared on the other side of it? I think in Whistler specifically, if a lot of these supports go away, but borders remain closed or they're more difficult to deal with, and the airline industry is slower to recover, we'll need to do things differently in response. I've been impressed by how quickly the inputs that we provide get to government. I've had a couple of experiences where working through our MP or through, you know, ministers who are on the ground in British Columbia, gets to Ottawa very quickly and adjust policy, which I h ave not seen to this point. The inputs from a small tourism town in British Columbia would get our inputs to government at a glacial pace over long periods of time. And so that's one change I've seen is that we have better access and quicker access in this new world that we f ace. But I think you're right. Understanding life after the recovery funding is really crucial, and I think it's important that we start turning our minds towards that sooner, rather than later. It's really been in my head since the beginning is how do we chart our course after the investments stop. I wonder, it occurs to me we've all become very Keynesian in our economics, like spend government spend. Is that a message you continue to hear from the business community, that this is a crisis it requires government spending or are you hearing people say, let the market decide.

Val Litman: 17:38

Yeah. Right. And you know, it's funny. I would love to go back to some of your earlier comments too, and figure out, I'd love to hear from you. Some of the themes and threads you're thinking about is as Whistler moves forward as well, and what will be required, what you guys will need up there. Given some of the blows tourism and hospitality has been dealt during this crisis, but, to your economic question, you got right to the heart of it. We can only print so much money for so long, and before we'll eventually hit a credit crunch, you know, every time we create more debt, we have to go with the bond markets to try and get people to finance that. And at some point, if we do too much of it, we lose confidence in the marketplace and, and things start to hit a bit of, like I say, credit gridlock. But having said that, you know, there are certain times in history where it makes a hundred percent sense for governments to go into debt, to stimulate the economy, to drive a little bit of growth in crisis. Certainly to look after vulnerable populations and look after people that give so much to our economies and to this place. But we are probably going to get into a very sticky, protracted, complicated public dialogue conversation now, and it will be national around how and where do we spend our cash now, because it's not a refillable cup where we can keep going back to the machine to top it up. So you have to think there's going to be some really, um, uncomfortable conversations we're going to be having as a province. And then nationally in the near future here, as we pick winners and losers as government places, bets on the economy where they think the highest ROI will be and where. Higher ROI in this case means not just positive economic outcomes, but positive social outcomes too. I mean, we need to be thinking about longterm prosperity, resilient communities. Again, how we treat and take care of our vulnerable populations, our impacts on the environment. But having said that, we know governments are looking at massive stimulus packages. Now we maybe only get a chance once in a generation or every other generation to look at economic stimulus like this. So let's place really smart bets on the sectors, businesses and concepts that give us the right kind of ROI.

Mayor Crompton: 20:01

I think that that's the answer to the question that you started with. To me, I hope that the bet is on tourism. And I think for us, the supports that are most crucial are those that exist now and ensuring that they're there when we can actually use them. So in our community, the Canada wage subsidy is a nice to have, but if your restaurant's closed and no one's working, and there's no one purchasing from you, then you just don't have any reason to keep the business open. So for a lot of the businesses in our community, they closed in mid-March, they're starting to open now and they're serving restaurants of 20% of what they would be this time of year regularly as we move through the summer and into the fall and winter, my expectation is that businesses to remain open we'll need to see that Canada wage subsidy stick around. Because it's when they can actually use it when there is no tourism subsidizing or supplementing your wage doesn't help. When tourism returns, it'll be required. And so that's one that we've been spending a lot of time and energy on is sharing with government, the importance of keeping that around so that tourism can actually get value from it. Another one is better information about, and to be fair, I don't think this information exists because it's all guided by the realities on the ground, around the virus, but where does the airline industry, the cruise industry, the convention industry find itself in November or January and, a coordinated approach to planning and coming up with scenarios that allow tourism dependent communities to respond well. I'm trying to right now bring together a group of tourism Mayor's from Vancouver, Victoria, Toronto, Montreal, Banff, Tofino, to have a conversation about how do we work with government to ensure that we are nimble enough to respond in ways that will take advantage of the opportunities and mitigate the challenges that we face. And I think that that's going to be an important conversation because it's one that requires us to be close to the information when it is available. And I feel like those connections to government are there now in ways that they haven't been in the past.

Val Litman: 22:57

Just saying right off the top, tourism is such a huge part of the economic pie for us here in BC, right? I mean, 300,000 jobs, direct jobs about a$6 billion annual contribution to the provincial GDP. I mean, we have to develop a strategy and approach for tourism. So it was great to hear all the work you're doing. I mean, Jack, we're bringing that to the Premier's economic recovery task force table every Thursday when we meet. The BC Chamber does sit on that task force. But a big part of a big part of this of course, is consumer confidence and team confidence. You know, how do we create experiences and spaces where people feel safe to engage, to eat, to celebrate, to enjoy whatever service or offering is being offered by the entrepreneur. One development that's happened in the last week that I'm really encouraged by when it comes to tourism i n Canada is a national round table has been convened. It was initiated by air Canada and the Canadian chamber of commerce. And it is going to be a national push to the provinces saying let's come up with a plan here. Let's not just leave a vacuum. The problem, of course, with tourism hospitality, food service, accommodation, restaurants, all of these folks were hit first in the pandemic. And typically, you know, if you're, if y ou're first out y our first back in. That's not the case with tourism and hospitality here, it was the hardest and first hit. It will probably be the last part of the economy to come back online again. So, i f we appreciate that is a possibility, then we need to be thinking about the strategy now to get it going again. And I do think this national round table on tourism is going to be a big part of driving a much clearer dialogue at the provincial level on how we address this and t ackle i t. Because again, you can't ignore the economic positive economic impact, u h, towns like Whistler and others have on the provincial economy here in BC.

Mayor Crompton: 25:03

Yeah. We talked earlier about, um, the idea of slayings, some sacred cows. There's also sort of a parallel conversation about let's build back better. Let's have what exists on the other side, the not just back to where things were, but a better future. So what does that mean to you, how has it impacted your thinking about how we we recover?

Val Litman: 25:28

Yeah, well, I think it connects back to this idea that I was sharing earlier that, you know, it's not every generation that gets to make some of the economic stimulus investments that will actually have the opportunity to make now. So the investments to date have really been about keeping businesses on life support, supporting people, but now governments are going okay, how do we come out of this? Well, the answer is in part, we're going to make some massive investments in ourselves, in our economy, in people. And so let's place the right bets that give us that longterm prosperity, create resilient communities, protect vulnerable populations, mitigate impacts on the environment. The only problem with that conversation where I get worried, what keeps me up at night is this conversation. And it should be a public dialog nationally provincially, not just, you know, business association to government, um, is that it's not going to be dominated by ideology. And, I would say specifically ideologies that aren't evidence-based. You know, a classic would be there are certain minorities, and that's like communities, you know, groups of people, not ethnic minorities, but small nooks and crannies of dialogues and narratives around our primary resource sectors in BC that maybe they're not good for the environment, or we don't know how to manage them, effectively ethically, environmentally, which is a false narrative here in BC. And the example I would give is that, you know, in BC, we're blessed with exceptional copper deposits and you need four times more copper to build an electric vehicle than you do a traditional combustion engine. So from a mining perspective in BC, we could actually be coming out of this a global leader in supplying ethical, sustainable, low carbon copper to the world to power the new transportation industry of the future. So, we need people thinking about with these investments, not just about shiny new objects that appear to be in the future that have never been tried and tested before, but also some of our traditional sectors here in BC that have created prosperity for decades and generations that now could be on the cutting edge of new and future economies.

Mayor Crompton: 27:34

Yeah, it sounds like you're looking at the fundamentals of the economy being maybe strengthened. It's interesting that the vast majority of the money that's being pumped into the economy right now is not productive. You know, the Marshall plan was$15 billion of US funds invested in rebuilding Europe. The US has now invested about 4 trillion, but it's stimulus that sits in bank accounts and banks, which is interesting that we have not used the stimulus to build roads and bridges. We've used it to prop up an economy. I like, I like what Canada has done putting it into the hands of people, but I wonder what it means that we haven't actually built roads and bridges with that money.

Val Litman: 28:32

Well, I mean, I think under normal circumstances, we would be scratching our heads if we saw a government handing out billions upon billions, and it wasn't going to some sort of physical infrastructure piece or, you know, tangible investments that, you can like point out or touch, but no one is debating in crisis that we've needed this money to go to people and businesses to keep them alive. So I think that the fact that the quote unquote, stimulus to date hasn't resulted in a new hospital or a new road, and therefore, you know, it's maybe lacking somehow, you know, none of us. And I don't think you're suggesting that either is that that's not what we're saying, but you're right in the sense that, it is so unusual to see all this money being put into the economy, into people, into supporting businesses and, really at the end of the day, all we're going to get, but hopefully this is the goal is some semblance of the economy that existed before. Now looking forward, it's all about strategic investments to hopefully grow our opportunity and help us move out of this crisis frame that we're in right now. So yeah, I mean, it's quite historic in that sense right now, a lot of the investments are about rescuing people, rescuing businesses. Now, moving forward, it's hopefully about growing the opportunity and, pivoting the economy in some exciting new directions that, again, touch all those categories we were talking about, you know, resilient communities, thriving economies, looking after the people that we need to look after.

Mayor Crompton: 30:02

Going into this, the fundamentals of capitalism were kind of being debated and questioned, I think. Are corporations just there to serve shareholders or do they need to consider stakeholders, environment, community, their clients. Um, I assume that moving forward that conversation will come back and maybe be even more substantive. Because it'll be informed by this time of massive investment in people and sustaining the economy. So where do you come down on the fundamentals of capitalism and who corporations are meant to serve and if that'll change at all in part.

Val Litman: 30:56

Yeah, I mean, I can see and appreciate, it's been maybe a lively conversation, not, not just triggered by COVID, but it's been out there in public discourse for awhile. I mean, I think most Canadians look around the world at other oppression or oppressive regimes, and what's happening in certain specific jurisdictions across the Pacific ocean right now and say, I'm glad I'm in Canada and I'm not there. I think the, in BC, we have a great tradition and corporate leadership that really does address and speak to a triple bottom line. It's not just about a rate of return. It's about the environment. It's about people, it's about community. I think whenever we're having informed discussions about how we do our business, how we live our lives, how we run our economy, these are all good things, but I wouldn't say that people are ready to leave capitalism in the dust. I think it's served us very well here in Canada. It's given us an outstanding standard of living, but I do think you'll, you'll find, you know, as an example, I think of the corporate social responsibility movement here in BC and the amount of charitable dollars that go into public assets. I mean, tech mining is an example, who gave tens of millions to the children's hospital here in Vancouver, the acute care center that my son was actually in this past summer for a month. And I think my son's health outcomes are directly correlated to a good old fashioned capitalist company. Thank goodness, that chose to invest some of its profits in a public asset, like a children's hospital. So, I don't think we're ready to leave it in the dust, but think we'll probably be having more conversations about how we do business as usual, quote unquote, moving forward.

Mayor Crompton: 32:45

You may have made a headline here. President CEO of the BC chamber of commerce supports capitalism.

Val Litman: 32:52

Yeah. I don't think anyone's surprised by that answer, but, you know, you asked the big question there, Jack and I have to treat it very carefully because there's a lot layered within your question. And, you know, I think in North America, a lot of what's driven some of that questioning, especially in the US, less in Canada, is the inequality gap, that is growing for certain people in certain communities. And so that's caused a real reexamination of some of the economic fundamentals around what's driving that. But in Canada, we've got a beautiful economy that's doing great things for most Canadians. But I think whenever we come out of crisis, we should be reflective. And how do we do things better moving forward?

Mayor Crompton: 33:39

Yeah, I agree. I don't think anyone is eager to leave capitalism. It feels to me that it's more of a shift in what capitalism is. I mean, capitalism, isn't one thing at a given time. It is something that changes and adjusts to the reality that is experienced by people. And I think that the shift has been a positive one as we've moved from just the ideology was to serve only the shareholder. I don't think that's any longer the case as you point out. And so it's more of a shift in what is invested in that term rather than moving on to something different. What are the things to leave this conversation with that are important to British Columbia economy? To British Columbia's tourism economy. And finally, what would you say to our town about what we should be thinking about moving into the future phase? Yeah, gosh, two big questions to end on, but I'll try and tie a bow around it. I think as we come out of this crisis, well, let me back it up. I don't know if you saw, but there was a lovely article on Dr. Bonnie Henry, our provincial health officer in the New York times this past weekend, talking about how well BC has navigated in large part due to her leadership through this crisis, certainly from a health and safety perspective. And I personally am so grateful for the leadership she's given us and that steady hand she's had on operations when it comes to solving community transition and really being a community leader. I think instilling calm i nto people and just, y ou know, top marks across the board. But I think the most important thing for us to remember here is that we've been very fortunate, thanks to some smart people in the right positions here, t oo. We've been very fortunate getting through the crisis, but now we have to understand that we now have the economic work of recovery to tackle. And so the journey is now just beginning. We've made it through the acute for now, before a second w ave h ealthcare part of the crisis, but we can't confuse today at least, o ur successful health and safety outcomes with what will now be, successful economic outcomes. That journey is just beginning. And so the, the c all t o action there, I would say, is staying engaged with local chambers being engaged with your elected officials, staying in d ialogue, you know, working as a team and our messaging to governments around what we need i s local business owners i s SMEs a nd communities like Whistler, so that we can maintain our continuity as communities, as s mall economies. So I guess in short it's that we've been lucky how we've performed so far, but now the real work on the economic stuff is just beginning and so much is uncertain. So we have to appreciate, we can't confuse the two outcomes. For Whistler, I think you said it, Jack, you know, this is all about how do we inspire, encourage, cajole, our feds and provincial elected officials to actually articulate now a strategy to bring tourism back. And no one is suggesting we need to open the borders and toss testing out the window, and we just need to turn on the taps and get it going again. It's a complicated conversation, but right now we don't have a strategic framework. We need one. And I'm glad that we've got a national tourism round table led by our Canadian Chamber, but it would be for communities like Whistler to be engaged in that conversation. There is so much wisdom at your elevation up there in terms of how we could do that. So I hope, u h, people in Whistler stay involved in that conversation and stay involved with their local Chamber a nd us because we're taking your concerns and thoughts not just to John Horgan here in the province, and he's listening, but also to the federal government as well. BC is an important part of the tourism puzzle in Canada. And like I said earlier, you know,$6 billion contribution here in BC, 300,000 jobs. This is something we need to preserve. We need to look after it. I will say, Melissa and her team at the Whistler Chamber of Commerce are doing a phenomenal job. I've been so impressed from the beginning. They jumped in very quickly and have been collecting our thoughts and our input and have been, I think, representing us very well. So you should be proud. I know you are doing good work.

Val Litman: 38:39

Oh, a hundred percent. No, Melissa has been amazing and,you know, she's making an outsized contribution to our provincial network too. She's a leader among leaders and I'm just so glad we've got her in the network still. It's awesome.

Mayor Crompton: 38:51

Hey, just out of interest. You started, or you worked at nurse next door. These kind of health care businesses, are they exploding now? Is that something that COVID has changed? I was remembering that you had done that work and I was fascinated just wondering what's happening in the healthcare sector, in the private healthcare sector.

Val Litman: 39:17

You know what, it's an awesome question, actually, Jack, I've been wondering about it myself, but I haven't connected with any of my colleagues in that category specifically just to find out, but I think there's probably a lot of people thinking about, you know, when they do need care, what sort of a setting do they want to receive it in? Do they want to get it in their home? Do they want to go to emergency if, if something is acute? So I think, you know, as a private sector, economic opportunity here, we're going to be having lots of conversations around healthcare delivery and, you know, gosh, I mean jumping a little bit, but think of how we've heard the reports around just the drop in numbers of people going to emergency, because I think people are going, you know, historically I maybe w ould h ave gone to emergency with this sprained ankle just to get i t checked out, but you know what COVID is happening. I'm going to avoid going to the clinic right now or the emergency room. And we've seen a lot of people pivoting to t elehealth as well. So I know apps like Babylon with Telus mean, you know, for a low level issue. I d on't k now, let's say you've got a cold or something, or maybe you need a simple antibiotic. You can now do a consultation through the Babylon a pp with a doctor, a clinician who can prescribe to you what you need. They'll send your prescription right to your pharmacy of choice. And you can go walk across the street 30 minutes later and pick it up and you've done your whole doctors visit from the comfort of your living room. I mean, things are changing and I know Babylon, I think they've seen quadruple the traffic during COVID. So, m aybe taking it back to one of your original questions a nd conversations around, like, how are things going to be different? I do think h ealthcare is going to be quite different moving forward.

Mayor Crompton: 41:01

Yeah. And work will be so different. It feels like all of these things that we've talked about as future realities have been brought so near future. You know, every local government in British Columbia and across globally has figured out that they can actually work remotely, which I think we've had the technology to do for a long time, but we just haven't had the will. One of the things that I am expecting is to have more people doing what you talked about, which is remote work from Whistler. I see more and more people who run a business in Toronto or Hong Kong, living in Whistler and becoming members of our community, which is an interesting thing to put your mind around when there are business businesses being run out of communities in which they don't exist.

Val Litman: 41:56

Totally. Yeah. And you know the thing about that will be really interesting is obviously what we're seeing now and understanding there's mental health implications. You know, if you really get charged by going into a social setting, a work setting where you have colleagues you can interact with. So we know that, there's cost benefits stuff. One of the things that I think is quite interesting, it's an old adage, you know, if you're not at the table, you're not a deal. That's probably an expression from the eighties or something when they were making money hand over fist and pitching each other in rooms. But, but there is something to be said, especially in these larger corporate environments where people are now working from home, do you get the same visibility on yourself as a person, your contribution and your performance, when you're sitting in a private office, you know, distributed away from the head office where maybe your superiors, your leaders, aren't getting eyeballs on your performance and what you're doing. So what are the implications there for career growth and opportunity promotions, you know, building champions for yourself in the workplace. So, yeah, I mean, lots of questions, really exciting. Probably a lot of people thinking I don't need to spend as much money on a brick and mortar office anymore, but then there's trade offs too.

Mayor Crompton: 43:07

Yeah. We'll learn. We'll adjust.We'll evolve I think. It will be interesting. Val, thank you for doing this, but more importantly, thank you for the investment that you made in Whistler and that you continue to make. I tell you, we are a different and a better community as a result of your work here. And I was so excited when you agreed to chat, but just w anted to pass on our deep, thank you for what you have done in Whistler. So thank you.

Val Litman: 43:46

Oh, Jack. No, that was, that's pretty incredible. I don't know if I'm quite deserving of that, but you know, there was an amazing group of people and leaders working up in Whistler when I was there. And we did some awesome work as a team for sure. And you're one of those people. So thank you for saying that. And thanks for all the leadership you're showing there, especially on the tourism file and, it's a complicated time to be out there pointing the way forward, but I think you're doing a great job and it was total pleasure to dial in today. So thank you.

Mayor Crompton: 44:10

I also want to thank Mountain FM for their continued support of the Whistler Podcast. Thanks for listening. I'm Jack Crompton. See you next time.

Narator: 44:18

You've been listening to the Whistler Podcast. Candid conversations about everything Whistler. To find out more about the Whistler Podcast, visit whistler.ca/whistlerpodcast.