Tofino Mayor Josie Osborne joins Whistler’s Mayor Jack Crompton on Episode 19 of the Whistler Podcast to discuss the shared experiences of their resort communities in this uncertain time.
They discuss the strong link between tourism and the environment, the importance of deepening the visitor experience and what it means to be a Tofitian or Whistlerite.
Tune in hear Josie explain how her master's thesis about clams relates to her work as Tofino's Mayor during COVID-19, and what it means to have 'permeable skin' in politics.
Josie has been the Mayor of Tofino for over seven years, serving two terms. She has a marine biology background, with a Masters in Fisheries Management and has been actively served her community through roles with a variety of organizations including: Tourism Tofino Board, Tofino Botanical Gardens Foundation and Raincoast Education Society and 12th International Congress of Ethnobiology.
Tofino Mayor Josie Osborne joins Whistler’s Mayor Jack Crompton on Episode 19 of the Whistler Podcast to discuss the shared experiences of their resort communities in this uncertain time.
They discuss the strong link between tourism and the environment, the importance of deepening the visitor experience and what it means to be a Tofitian or Whistlerite.
Tune in hear Josie explain how her master's thesis about clams relates to her work as Tofino's Mayor during COVID-19, and what it means to have 'permeable skin' in politics.
Josie has been the Mayor of Tofino for over seven years, serving two terms. She has a marine biology background, with a Masters in Fisheries Management and has been actively served her community through roles with a variety of organizations including: Tourism Tofino Board, Tofino Botanical Gardens Foundation and Raincoast Education Society and 12th International Congress of Ethnobiology.
The Whistler Podcast, candid conversations about everything Whistler with host, Mayor Jack Crompton.
Mayor Crompton:Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Whistler Podcast. Thanks for joining us. I am Jack Crompton. As always, I want to acknowledge that we live, work and play on the official territory of the Lil'watt Nation and the Squamish Nation. I want to thank Mountain FM for their support producing the Whistler. Today, I am so excited to welcome a good friend of mine and the mayor of Tofino, Josee Osborne. And we will talk to her right after our Whistler news. Thank you to everyone in the RMOW for participating in our community conversations over the last week. Whistler community members contributed insights from their experience with the COVID-19 pandemic to help in Whistler's shared recovery. The four community conversations focused on the four characteristics of Whistler's shared vision, including sense of place, our environment, tourism based economy and our community. The thoughts and ideas from all of these conversations will be incorporated into our communities shared recovery efforts, especially through the community recovery working group led by the RMOW and our committees of counsel. You can view a summary of the ideas that were shared as part of this process at whistler.ca/communityconversations. The RMOW continues to prioritize, tackling the serious threat of climate change. On July 7th, the draft climate action, Big Move Strategy was presented to council. The strategy includes six proposed big moves focused on transportation buildings and the waste sector, and it proposed 2030 target for Whistler greenhouse gas reductions. The six big moves are number one, moved beyond the car. Number two, decarbonize passenger and commercial transportation. Number three, reduce visitor travel emissions. Number four, build zero emission buildings. Number five, make existing buildings better. And number six, close the loop and shift toward lower carbon consumption. Work is underway with community partners and community engagement is also being planned with details to be announced once it's available. All of Whistler will need to come together to achieve this climate action, big move strategy. You can learn more about it at whistler.ca/big moves. As visitation increases in the Sea to Sky corridor, please remain vigilant about COVID-19, really focusing on those basics. Those things that Dr. Henry has been talking about for a long time. Stay home when you're sick, wash your hands, maintain two meter distance from others. And please, when that's impossible, consider wearing a face mask when you aren't able to adequately distance from each other, the village is a tough place to adequately distance, and we need to be an example to the people who visit us that when we can't physically distance, we wear masks. Whistler has jumped on the mask making program in a big way. By the way, examples include the whistle Blackstone foundation mass fundraiser, where you can buy a mask with some incredible art on it. Whistler sewing services making and selling masks. And David McComb photography has been making masks also. The Squamish Lil'watt Cultural Center and the Audain art museum are also selling m asks. You can get them there every weekend. This summer Sea to Sky artists will be painting Adirondack chairs for charity. It's called the char-ity, event CHAIR-ity. There will be new chairs up for auction every week, 18 chairs in total. All proceeds will go to the Whistler Blackcomb foundation to support Sea tpo Sky charities. In the case of rain, the a rtists will be moved u nder the pavilion at Whistler Olympic Plaza. Please get out, watch these artists do their work and consider bidding on one of the chairs through the weekly auction.
Narrator:You are listening to the Whistler podcast, candid conversations on current events, local government, everything Whistler.
Mayor Crompton:Today, I am pleased to be speaking to Tofino mayor, Josee Osborne. Josie has been the mayor of Tofino for over seven years serving two terms. She has a background in Marine biology with a master's in fisheries management. Some of her former roles include chair of the tourism Tofino board, executive director of the Tofino botanical gardens foundation and rain coast education society, and chair of the 12th international Congress of ethno biology and Josie is a very good friend of mine. I'm just so grateful that you've agreed to join me and chat, today. Welcome J osie O sborne. Thanks Jack. It's always great to talk to you. It is, we had a great Facebook live on your Facebook, live chatting at the beginning of the pandemic, which it'll be interesting to see sort of the change in our experience from then to now. Put these two things beside each other and sort of w atching together, how are you? How's Tofino?
Mayor Osborne:I am well, thanks. I am doing well personally and my family as well, and Tofino is hoppin. It is busy here. The weather's been great after that kind of not so great start to July. I don't know what it was like in Whistler, but we had a lot of rain here. I t was really cold and we were trying to come up with another word that described July. So, you know, we u sed that phrase Junuary to describe the cold, a nd we never came up with one for July, but we needed it. And then everything just switched a few days ago and it's been beautiful. Just beautiful.
Mayor Crompton:And is it, are people struggling with getting comfort with groups of people in community or is that something that is,
Mayor Osborne:Yeah, that's a good question. I'm glad you went right to the heart of the matter. I think, you know, things rebounded more quickly than we expected in Tofino, we are prepared and our businesses have done a phenomenal job of implementing their COVID protocols and procedures, and they hired staff and they retrained them and everywhere I go, I just see fantastic efforts by all the local businesses and then the resorts and hotels opened, and the people came and they are here and observing some really interesting things. I think, you know, people feel very safe in a place like Tofino because we've got all these big wide open beaches. There's a lot to see and do, you can get out in the surf, you can go for a beautiful walk in Pacific Rim National Park Reserve. You can be in the forest, you can get out on a boat. It feels great. And to have people are definitely happy to be out of the city. I'm sure you're seeing t hat a lot too in Whistler. And we're also seeing a slight change in the clientele because we don't have the international travelers and we don't have Americans here. So we have mostly Canadians and we have a lot of younger people. So I think people who feel more mobile, they're more, you know, they're more likely to accept a bit of risk and come on out. And so, you know, with that comes some behaviors that leave some of us concerned about the group size and that, and we're doing our very best to manage that. And so far so good.
Mayor Crompton:I feel like as soon as you opened all of my friends left Whistler and headed over to Tofino, so say hi to everybody.
Mayor Osborne:Yeah. Okay. I sure will.
Mayor Crompton:So as I said at the beginning, you have a background in Marine biology. I know you as the mayor of Tofino, but, tell me about your history as a, as a Marine biologist. What did you study?
Mayor Osborne:Oh, it's so exciting. I studied clams. And so I, my passion growing up, you know, when I was nine years old, I decided that I wanted to be a Marine biologist because it would be great to have a career on working in something that I could also eat. So the relationship between eating seafood and making a career out of it, and I also grew up on the beach. So I grew up on the Eastern shores of Vancouver Island, and I spent my childhood down on the beach, flipping rocks, digging holes, clam digging, fishing, you know, get out there doing everything I could to be wet and salty. And that translated into this passion for Marine biology. So I went all the way through school. I went to UBC for my undergrad. I went to Simon Fraser university for a master's. And then when I finished my masters, like literally, maybe four days before I defended my thesis, I had a job interview to work as a fisheries biologist in Tofino. And you don't, I mean, I think a lot of people would love the idea of living in Tofino, or they want to move to Tofino. I had never planned on this. I wasn't destined for small town life. I didn't think, but I got the job and I moved out here to Tofino and that was 22 years ago. So there you go.
Mayor Crompton:And what was, what was your thesis?
Mayor Osborne:Well, uh, it was, uh, he really want to know, okay. It was, it was yield per recruit, modeling of intertidal clam dynamics and, and looking at the effects of different minimum legal sizes in the clam fishery. So now that sounds super dry
Mayor Crompton:You need to interpret that for me know,
Mayor Osborne:Let me interpret that for a little bit. When you go out and you go fishing and you there's size limits on fishing. So, you know, sometimes you're allowed to keep a fish of a certain length, or when you go crabbing, you're allowed to keep a crab that meets a certain minimum legal size. If you've ever wondered how they determine what that minimum legal size is. It's through a lot of, a lot of science and a lot of modeling and a lot of looking at the way animals grow and what happens when you remove a portion from the population through harvesting. And so what I did was a whole bunch of examination of that, but not in real life inside a computer. So it was, it was modeling work to mimic the dynamics of a population and then experiment with it by removing different amounts at different sizes. And interestingly, there's a tie to COVID here because with the modeling, the epidemiological modeling that the province is doing right now with COVID-19 and what they're looking at with their return to more interactions. And so we know that as we increase our interactions, that the way the disease transmits will, will change the rate of, the rate of the disease being present in the population. Well, it kind of has some similar principles to what I did with clams in a computer. So I kind of gobble that stuff up when I read it in the news. So there you go. That's me geeking out for you.
Mayor Crompton:And would you consider yourself a current citizen scientist? I mean, you're so engaged in government, but do you spend time with science still?
Mayor Osborne:I still spend an awful lot of time outside and I maintain, you know, I read up and I have my interests and I maintain my knowledge about that, but I think it's fair to say, I really don't consider myself an active biologist anymore. I'm not actively working in the field of biology and I love talking about it. The whole area of science communications h as always been something I'm super passionate about. And I found a science background is really good for politics. So it's been very helpful for dealing with uncertainty and understanding how to ask questions, how to get them answered, how to take into account, all kinds of different perspectives, how to do your best to remain objective and rational, but consider all kinds of information. And it helps me, I think it helps me anyways, make very balanced decisions and it suits my pragmatic nature. So it's, it's a great background for politics and I wish more scientists would become politicians.
Mayor Crompton:I agree. Do you clam?
Mayor Osborne:Yeah, not so much anymore. And that's partly because I don't have a boat right now, so I don't get, I can't go out to where the really good clam beaches are, but I do buy them from the local seafood shops and I love them. They did, you know, clams are the animal protein with the highest amount, highest concentration of vitamin B 12, and you need B12 to live. It's the only vitamin that you cannot get from plants. So you have to eat it or you have to get it in your diet by supplements or something like that. So for all the vegans and vegetarians out there, I guess for, if you're not into c lams, you'll have to do something else, but if you love clams, that's where it's at.
Mayor Crompton:Great, sold B12 go. What are solar asthmic angles?
Mayor Osborne:Okay. So you really come up with a great question. All right. So we know, we know that the sun sets in the West. I mean, everybody knows the sun sets in the West, but the sun does not set due West every single day of the year. And for us in the Northern hemisphere, I mean, here in Tofino, we're at 49 degrees, just North of 49 degrees where the sun sets on the horizon changes throughout the year and it creeps North. So Northwest. And then, uh, after just recently, it'll go back to, as we go into fall and then into the winter solstice, it'll go farther South. So it'll be Southwest. So that angle of West to where the sun is actually setting on the horizon is the solar as an with angle.
Mayor Crompton:That was great scientific communications, for sure. Well done. Um, your, your, your Twitter feed makes me believe that you are very aware of the fact that Tofino is the last place in Canada that sees the sun every day. Is that true?
Mayor Osborne:Uh, it, it, no, you know, I don't think it is because I think on Haida Gwaii there are some points that are probably farther West. So we are, we are very, very West. We have a very, I always like to say, you know, we're like the wettest warmest, Westfest, winter, a little different than Whistler.
Mayor Crompton:Yeah, for sure. No, I just mean that when I watch your Twitter feed, there is always photos of the sun leaving us, and burying itself into the ocean, which I have found, for me a nyway, says something about your attention to the daylight ending for Canada. I t's somewhere.
Mayor Osborne:I like the way you're thinking about that. Yeah.
Mayor Crompton:There you go. So maybe my assumptions are off, but there you go. That's, that's what, that's how I think of you watching the sun go down every night. You are the mayor of a community that is deeply engaged in tourism, and I wonder how your environmental ism and your work within, Marine biology interfaces with your work promoting tourism.
Mayor Osborne:Good question. Especially because in a place like Tofino, our tourism economy is really founded on incredible experiences in the natural environment, in a place that has been stewarded and cared for by first nations for thousands and thousands of years in a way that I, you know, I think we've done as humanity in this region, a relatively good job of striving to that balance between between people and place and the spaces around us and being able to protect those spaces, enable them to be intact and stay intact and not to overuse what is being provided for us. And I think that, you know, that is a very precious and incredible gift that we are able to share with the world, but we have to do it in a very, very careful way. It's no coincidence that tourism in this region was born out of a lot of conflict around the environment. And, and hopefully most of the listeners and Watchers will recall or have heard of the Cloquette Sound, the blockades and the protests of the eighties and nineties. So in 1980 a nd the 1980s around Mirrors Island, an incredible Island of temperate rainforest, and then in the early nineties around the government decision to undertake a serious amount of logging in some of the, you know, the most incredible r ainforest and water sheds in the world and the way that first nations and local, non-indigenous community members stood up and said, no, this is not the future that we see for ourselves. And so the international attention that became of that, the fact that we then applied for successfully to become a biosphere reserve is something that I think, y ou k now, that really is kind of what put us on the map, not to mention that we have Pacific Rim National Park reserve here, which is just to me, an absolute jewel of the Canadian national park system. So we received a lot of attention. A lot of pe ople's e yes turned to this place and realizing that this intact ancient coastal temperate rainforest, which is increasingly rare around the world is a place that's relatively easy to access, you know, five or six hours out of Vancouver, major international destination in its own. And people have flocked here and we chose this future for ourselves because we did not want to be a town that relied solely on resource extraction. So there's a very strong link between the environment and tourism here. And then for me personally, coming from that science background and a deep love of the outdoors, i t's a natural fit, I think.
Mayor Crompton:So was that a conscious decision that, a no to the forestry industry and a yes to tourism and was it a community made consciousness?
Mayor Osborne:Yeah, yeah, no, it really was a conscious decision and it, you know, not without controversy obviously, and anyone who's been to the West coast knows that just 30 minutes down the road lies the community of Uquelet, and you cool it as it's kind of like a sister village to Tofino. It's about the same size. The geography is a little bit different. They don't have the same kind of Sandy beaches that we have, but they've got incredible Rocky outcrops and incredible forest as well. But then the makeup, the people make up of each town is a little bit different. And so we really struggled in the eighties and nineties as, as we were transitioning and changing because Tofino embraced a tourism future wanted to go that direction. And you Uquelet you know, there was, it was different than you call it. And I think more of the actual logging community lived in Uquelet and it set up quite a bit of strife between the two towns that I'm happy to say is, is largely over a generation later here today. But that, that was a hot debate. There were many round tables and studies and inquiries and all kinds of things where the community really came together and tried to work with the government in a variety of different ways. First nation's very, very involved and we were able to establish some really innovative practices around how first nations would be engaged and consulted in resource decision making, how the community would participate in it and, and how it would relate and, communicate with the province. And it's, you know, it's largely stood us well, although there's also that saying of, you know, be careful what you wish for. And I would say here we are in 2020, having grown to an incredibly successful tourism economy in many ways, and with it's own strains and problems that the COVID-19 pandemic has revealed and made us a lot more aware of.
Mayor Crompton:So interesting, the similarities between our communities, because for Squamish and Whistler, we have a shared history of logging and it was a painful transition for the Sea to Sky corridor. And I think it was important to bring people along on that journey so that, we have a whole full community of people, many of whom have a history, in resource extraction and now are able to actually use those tools to help protect what we then share with the world. You've point to something really crucial, which is tourism isn't without its own impacts. And it is without a need for us to put our minds to exactly how we best manage those impacts and opportunities. So I wonder as you, look to provide a tourism experience that cares for the land, cares for the people, what do you put into your consideration of that task?
Mayor Osborne:I think, you know, there is an ethos amongst the people who live here and have businesses that enables them to be very aware of the natural environment around us, the people around us and the critical need to maintain it in a state that can support us. You can imagine this. And I, I, I bet you've got your own hot topics doing Whistler, of course, but you know, you're walking down the street, literally you can find somebody easily to have a conversation around carrying capacities, growth limits. How big can we really get how many cars can park here? How many people could come here? How many people can surf in the waves? How many people can go out whale watching. It is a constant hum of conversation here. And it's not easy to, to manage that with a lot of different interests. So people have, I think a lot of people who live here share common values, but they're not always going to be in agreement about the best way to express that. And, you know, I think the conversation around sustainability, it's an overused word. I know we all struggle with interpreting what that truly truly means. And how can you, how do you visit a place? How do you consume experiences in a way that doesn't diminish the place and the people that you're visiting? How do you know when you're approaching that point is something very hard, I think, to really put your finger on and then to actually measure and report out on, and have that conversation with businesses ri ght.
Mayor Crompton:Gain and gain agreement on, I think is also, yeah,
Mayor Osborne:Absolutely. And so, you know, so we have, have those interests, we have financial interests, and I think, you know, I really feel strongly that the independent owner operator culture here has really stood us well. And, people will have different feelings about, um, you know, kind of corporate ownership and tourism and the size of businesses, but so far, we've, you know, we've managed to avoid Starbucks and McDonald's and things like that. And, um, uh, it, I think that's something that really meets the values of a lot of people who live here. And, you know, we don't want to be put in a situation, I think, where people feel like we're selling out those values. And so again, I mean, that's obviously a really sticky conversation and people will feel very differently about it, but who we are, i t very much attracts who comes here and who comes here defines who we will be in 10 or 20 years. I mean, when we market ourselves, we Mark we're marketing to our future residents. And so as our community has changed a little bit over time. And, so previously the resource extraction, the fishing and logging days, and then we shift into this ecotourism economy that we have here. And I think a lot of us are asking ourselves, especially in this time of the pandemic, w ell, what's next, and it's not going to be a wholesale change, but it is going to be, I think, a nuanced change in the way, our tourism economy diversifies a bit and deepens a bit. So i t kind of deepens in those meaningful experiences. And as we, I mean, we have no Americans and no international visitors coming anymore. So we're really serving mostly British Colombians a nd some Canadians abroad, farther abroad than BC. And, you know, I find myself t his summer kind of looking at the different composition of visitors and asking, what are they leaving with? Like, what are we giving them when they leave? And they go home, are they looking at things a different way? Are they behaving a different way? Are they aware of something that they weren't aware of before? And that's what I want to make sure people continue to get when they come to a place like Tofino,
Mayor Crompton:The takeaways in my community that I hope are a lesson learned about receding glaciers. Because we see them right in front of us and they're going away. And I imagine for you a preservation of old trees and the importance of them to people into the land, um, would be a big deal. I think the definition of Whistlerite, or to Tofitian is interesting in this context. Because we invite so many people into our communities and they like water meandering create the, the, the path of our communities in many ways. And if we're not attentive to where that, um, path is moving, then we don't get to participate in actually creating our own destiny. And for me, the definition of Whistler, right, uh, needs to include those visitors from around the world, because if it doesn't, they are just consuming us rather than participating in, this creation of what we'd like Whistler to be. I have always seen that word Whistlerite as sort of an exclusive term. But if Whistler is to become all that, I hope it does. And all that I see in it now it feels to me like excluding tourists and visitors sets us up for a situation where we're not a part of shaping our own destiny. Sounds all very high material.
Mayor Osborne:I think this is that's really interesting and I mean, we're, we're in this day and age of identity politics and the way we see people relating to who they think they are and to what group they think they belong and who is in and who is out. This is a really interesting conversation, particularly for smaller communities like Tofino and Whistler. So your question is a good one. Like what is a Whistlerite. And who gets to call you a Whistlerite? Do you get to determine that yourself, or does the community around you let you know when you are now a Whistlerite?There are no easy answers to that. And I, you know, this, maybe this is a little bit of a segue, but another, maybe it's a realization or an awareness that I am more, more connected with or coming to you now is, between the staff who make this economy run and the rest of our town. And we always say phrases like seasonal staff, temporary staff. And one of our former city counselors here used to always say in our council meetings, you know, we have to stop speaking like this. We really need to just call them people, first of all, and also call them Tofitians. And, and they, you know, if you come here and you live here for six months and you're working in the tourism industry, even at one of the lower wage jobs, you are still a member of our community and we have a duty and responsibility to care for you. And again, coming back to COVID-19, I mean, one of our, one of my biggest realizations, and I think certainly one of the biggest realizations in the, in the business industry here is around the importance of, of good mental wellness and mental health in the success of frontline workers and the tourism industry as a whole. So, so this separation of like, well, you're not a Tofitian because you're a seasonal staff person has, is really beginning, I think, to great on us and making us realize we've got to change our attitude. And the way we, you know, talk about people, let alone how we treat them, how we house them, how we ensure that they are taken care for are taken care of as they work these jobs. And, there's no question about it. It's often really hard work. I mean, dealing for hours and hours on end with visitors and answering their questions and ensuring their needs are taken care of and not losing your temper, and, all of those things right now, especially with all the COVID procedures and protocols. It's worth thinking about that a lot.
Mayor Crompton:Yeah. I think if I'm a whistle, right? Cause I've been here 10 years and you're not, cause you just rolled into town, then I have a responsibility to care for this place that you don't. And I think that that is incredibly damaging for our communities because the people who come here to work and live and, and celebrate this place, share our responsibility to protect it. I think it's similar to the way tourists come into our towns, you know, we're talking about a tourist pledge. What was the term that has been thrown around about, I agree to treat the place in certain ways. Yeah. So, a Tofitian pledge. Whistler pledge. The idea that I will come and treat this place, u m, w ith reverence, with care with preservation, with conservation in mind, u m, i s, is, is less, u m, a ttainable and graspable. if I just perceive myself as a consumer of that place. So anyway, I think we've talked through it, but I think that the pledge gets us closer to that idea that I have a responsibility as a visitor to Tofino, to care for Tofino.
Mayor Osborne:So I think this is a huge opportunity for tourism in British Columbia on the whole, like the fact that we, especially when we think about relationships with indigenous communities and that no matter where we go, we are visiting somebody's home. And the, you know, the part, the part of the tourism industry that really bothers me is the part that is about kind of entitlement and that I can go anywhere whenever I want, however I want do whatever I want once I get there. And we see stories from places like Venice and Barcelona, where there are massive uprisings of local residents who are just saying enough is enough. So when or how, where's that tipping point where, where you see more and more visitation to a community that is like you're talking about kind of consumption nature in nature and about consuming and Instagramming experiences, checking it off and leaving without really understanding the place they came to, the relationship that the people have to that place. And we, one of the best questions I think I can get asked in Tofino by a visitor is like, what, what's it like to be a local? Or what do the locals do? You know, what's the locals favorite? And that's all about wanting to experience what our small town is really all about. I like that. That's really great. And let us, as the locals define what that is instead of visitors coming in and defining that for us. Well, our Tofino is this and your Tofino is that, and it just can't be like that. So this is a, this is our home that we are inviting you to come and visit. These are our values. We ask that you match those and respect them. And when we come to your home and visit, we will do the same. So, you know, I just think BC maybe more than most places in the world really has the opportunity to keep that strong BC identity. And that pride, we feel and beautiful British Columbia, like truly beautiful British Columbia. And I'm going to have like beautiful indigenous British Columbia, cause that's a whole other conversation we could have and, and, and, and keep crafting and fine tuning that experience as one of inviting into our home where, we're happy to share with you all of that. We have, and we ask that you do this for us in return.
Mayor Crompton:When you have a great experience at someone else's house, you always say they just made me feel so much at home. And I think that that's, that's good Tourism. Tell me about your experience of COVID-19. Tell me about Tofino's experience of COVID-19.
Mayor Osborne:Well, I bet it's pretty similar to yours in the beginning. So once the pandemic was declared and our town quite quickly came to the realization that things were going to change very drastically. And I mean, this was a time of course, back in mid March of, of deep uncertainty, about the virus itself, which resulted in a lot of anxiety and a lot of fear and the decisions, you know, with guidance from public health officials, of course, and always, but we made the decision on March 18th to basically issue a statement to the world saying, please visit us later, please postpone your visit. And this was just as spring break was getting underway.
Mayor Crompton:A bizarre thing for the mayor of Tofino to say to anyone.
Mayor Osborne:Yeah, exactly. I never ever thought at any time, would I be yeah, the mayor of a town that depends upon tourism for livelihoods, something that we're so proud to do, and to actually ask people, please don't come right now. Now's not a great time. But again, coming back to that analogy of a home, it was never please never come to our home. It was, now's not a good time to visit our home. There are some people who are sick and we are going to take care of them and we'll let you know when you're welcome back. And our businesses immediately, they were right on board. They were right there with the municipality and essentially shut down and not because they were told to, but because they knew that it was the best thing to do at that time to protect public health. And then as the weeks have gone on, and we've learned more about the disease. And I think, I think many of us myself included are far more comfortable with the state of affairs and also really understanding how the healthcare system works and how we can manage a case of COVID should it come to our small town, how our hospital will we'll deal with it, what, you know, how we will deal with it within our health authority. And that's given us a lot more confidence and obviously has given the province more confidence because here we are in phase three of BC's restart plan, but I'm sure just like Whistler to say I'm restoring, but we're going to have to temporarily lay you off to hundreds and hundreds of employees, some of whom had just arrived to start the season was devastating and to walk around town and see nobody here was devastating and simultaneously a really incredible opportunity. I mean, people enjoyed themselves and this place like they never had before. And I had so many people say to me, especially business owners. Wow. You know, I I've had so much time to be outside and to reconnect. I remember why I moved here in the first place.
Mayor Crompton:Yeah.
Mayor Osborne:That's pretty impactful. Like, wow, I've been so busy running my life and my business. And I'm so busy pulled in so many different directions that I didn't have time to remember why I even live here or I'm sure, you know, as a parent, I'm sure you can kind of relate to this too. I'm like, wow, I've gotten to spend a ton more time with my kids. And it's been a really incredible point of connection with friends, with family, all the Zooming and FaceTiming and everything that we're doing that lull that pause was, was a really beautiful thing for many of us, but also a really difficult thing for folks who were out of work. And then for frontline healthcare workers, for example, you know, in a way nothing changed and it only got harder for them. So there's, you know, the experiences are really varied and it's important in my mind to kind of take it at face value for what it is. And understand that in this time of uncertainty tomorrow, everything could change.
Mayor Crompton:I think you said it really well, there's been much lost and much gained. I felt one of the things I've heard from a lot of Whistler rights is that we used to have shoulder seasons and they were an opportunity to rest. It's good for the, the community that we've been able to have consistent year round visitation, but this was a great rest. And it felt a lot like the shoulder seasons that we had had in the past, which is a big deal. Um, what is the difference between having tough skin and permeable skin?
Mayor Osborne:You've really done your research. Okay. All right. Switching topics entirely. All right. So, yes, Eleanor Roosevelt said, you know, to survive politics, you have to have, a skin as tough as a rhinoceros hide or something to that effect. And I think we've all heard that expression. When you tell somebody you're a politician or you're an elected official, and they're like, Oh wow, you must have really thick skin. And I will say that when I was making the decision of whether or not to run from there, back in 2012, one of the things I worry the most about was do I have a thick enough skin, because we all know that in politics, you are going to get criticized. There's no doubt about it. And people are going to sometimes make it personal. And they're going to say awful things that are going to disagree with your ideas, your values, your policies, your decisions, and what I have discovered in my years now as a local elected official is not having a thick skin really wouldn't help because I think that's, you know, becoming in your, to that criticism means you're not really hearing what's in there. And so the permeable skin is about letting them write stuff in and keeping the wrong stuff out. So I'll use a real example. There was an individual in our community who had a lot of very critical things to say to me, to counsel to the district of Tofino would come to meetings and make those opinions loudly known. And it was, it was very difficult to kind of separate the wheat from the TAF and say, all right, you know, your point is excellent. It is true that a valid criticism of government that we didn't do this or that we did do that, but the way he's delivered, it was awful. I mean, it was truly awful. And so to provide good service to all of our constituents, it's important to be able to hear that the real criticism in there and to deal with it and to understand that, you know, you may never win a friend out of this. You may never convert this person. This person may never like you. They may never like government. It doesn't matter. The principle behind it is that every citizen is entitled to fair and equal treatment. And that, um, barring, you know, crossing major lines like, you know, criminal behavior, which this never resulted in just to be clear at you, you have to still address the matter at heart. And so I think that one of the reasons why I really truly love doing what I do is because I feel quite good about the way I can usually keep the wrong stuff out and let the right stuff in. So that is permeable skin, not thick skin,
Mayor Crompton:Just for listeners information. Josie did a presentation a few years ago on permeable skin versus a tough skin. I think that's a beautiful concept because you couldn't be more correct that sometimes we share the right things in the wrong ways and missing out on those right things because they were shared in the wrong way is just a loss to us as the people who are the ones meant to incorporate that information and create good policy. So very interesting. Thank you. What have you been reading or listening to that inspires you?
Mayor Osborne:Oh, I have it right here. Can I show it to you?
Mayor Crompton:sure.
Mayor Osborne:This is great. Alright. Okay. I hope you can see it,
Mayor Crompton:How to fight?
Speaker 3:By the by the Buddhist. It's just called Name. I can never pronounce, u h, s o I'm not even go ing t o t ry right now, but it's called how to fight. It's a little book of short little essays and statements about maintaining composure and mindfulness in times of conflict. We were just talking about the permeable skin and people, y ou know, they're angry. There are a lot of angry people in the world, and this is about how to remain calm yourself and, and to deal with that anger and conflict in a way that not only helps to deescalate situations, but just helps you remember, w hat is right and what is wrong and, and what is important for you to consider. So a person can be very angry because they are hurt or they have other things going on, and that those don't become your problems, but you do need to deal with these people. So I find it very inspiring. So it's a great little series of books. There's, there's how to eat, h ow to love, how to other things. And it doesn't even say on the back. So I can't, I can't tell you right now. So there's that. So those are like the little books, you know, you just keep it th e s i de o f your desk and you can pick up and read once in aw hile. And other than that, I have a whole stack of books that I am slowly plowing my way through, from everything to do with tax policy across Canada and the different provinces and the federal government, and kind of a history of tax policy because I'm trying to understand that better to a beautiful new novel by Is abelle a nd an amazing American Tu llian w riter who I really love. How about you?
Mayor Crompton:I have been reading Doris Kearns Goodwin. I told you this, I am almost done. It's a big, long book called team of rivals, it's all about Lincoln. And then I just read a book by Adam Kahane called Transformative. Anyway, it's a book by Ad am Kane w ho is the founding partner of RE Os p artners. And it talks about public process in a way that changes organizations and governments in a way that is sort of cross sectoral and gets groups of people who disagree with each other into the same room, talks about the South Africa apartheid process. And it is a truly inspiring bo ok. So I really have enjoyed it. Yeah.
Mayor Osborne:We're going to have to turn books after, so you can read about tax policy and I'll read about public process.
Mayor Crompton:It has sounds, it sounds good.
Speaker 2:So I want to finish with a piece of trivia that I need to figure out whether you can answer or not. And here it is. This is from my son Van. Who did both Boba Fett and Han Solo work for?
Mayor Osborne:Jabba the hut!
Mayor Crompton:Correct. Well done. So you're a big star Wars fan, and that was just a test, whether or not that's the case, Well done. Josie, thank you. That was really interesting. And I think you do terrific work for Tofino, and I think he did terrific work for our province. You're a leader among us, and I think, the work you do is really important. So I'm grateful for everything you do, your friendship and your leadership. And thanks for joining me today.
Mayor Osborne:You are so welcome. Thank you for asking me to be a part of this. I will never say no to an invitation to have a conversation with you.
Mayor Crompton:Sounds good. I also want to thank Mountain FM for their continued support of the Whistler Podcast. Thanks for listening. I'm Jack Crompton. See you next time.
Narrator:You've been listening to the Whistler Podcast, candid conversations about everything, Whistler. To find out more about the wizard podcast visit with third.ca/whistler podcast.