The Whistler Podcast

Season 2 Episode 13: Whistler Housing Authority brings vibrancy into Whistler’s neighbourhoods (with Marla Zucht)

August 17, 2021 Resort Municipality of Whistler Season 2 Episode 13
The Whistler Podcast
Season 2 Episode 13: Whistler Housing Authority brings vibrancy into Whistler’s neighbourhoods (with Marla Zucht)
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode of The Whistler Podcast, Mayor Jack Crompton and Cole Stefiuk speak to Marla Zucht, General Manager at the Whistler Housing Authority (WHA). 

The WHA manages 6,600 bed units through its ownership and rental programs, allowing around 80 per cent of employees to be housed within Whistler. Marla talks about the energy and vibrancy WHA housing developments bring to neighbourhoods. They also discuss how the program has evolved, debunk some myths, discuss the wait list and talk about future housing inventory.

The WHA was created by the Resort Municipality of Whistler to oversee resident-restricted housing for both ownership and rental. 

Mayor Crompton:

Today on The Whistler Podcast, I will ask Marla Zucht how long it will be until Cole Stefiuk gets housed in WHA rental housing stick around I'm Jack. He's Cole, this is The Whistler Podcast, as we always do. We want to acknowledge that we live, work and play on the traditional unceded territory of the Lil'wat Nation and the Squamish Nation. Cole, it is a smoky day outside. How are you doing?

Cole Stefiuk:

I'm avoiding the outdoors at all costs.

Mayor Crompton:

I thought we were gonna make it through the summer without smoke, but, uh, that is not the case. It has rolled in.

Cole Stefiuk:

It's going to be the next month and a half too. It's going to be the rest of the summer is going to be a little smoky, I think sucks.

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah. Well, Hey, come on. Where's that hopeful tone?

Cole Stefiuk:

Oh, where's your whole radio tone. We have, we've only had like what, two days of rain in the past, like two months. And I know the crews are doing a fantastic job battling the fires, but I don't know it's going to be a tough one for them.

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah, I know. It's been a challenging, challenging year. That is for sure. Um, so we're going to talk to WHA general manager Marla later about the Whistler Housing Authority, anything in your mind that you want to make sure we talk about?

Cole Stefiuk:

Uh, one, one thing kind of, I guess, uh, the, the waitlist. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I'm on one and I'm still waiting. So we'll, I'll, I'll, uh, talk to Marla about that in the, in the conversation, but that's the one thing I have questions about.

Mayor Crompton:

Okay. Right on. I think you're not alone. I think a lot of people have questions. Uh, I get asked about wait-lists, um, all the time and why we have wait-lists and w you know, could we use different, uh, tools to accomplish the same task, but, uh, Marla's not shy. I think that she'll, she'll take on your question. Let's see how it goes. Um, well, let's get to ask Jack and ask Cole. So we'll start with ask Jack anything. Cole. What is your question for me today?

Cole Stefiuk:

I hate this. Cause I said last episode, I don't want to talk about COVID anymore, but I have to ask the question, Jack, are you concerned at all about the Delta variant?

Mayor Crompton:

Oh, I think it's critical that we keep our eye on the ball. So a lot of us are motivated to, to be vaccinated. And, um, I think that that is a, is a key factor of protection. It's nice to not be talking about vaccines and masks all the time and being able to focus on other things like ensuring that we have a great parks experience and that, uh, talking housing and all that kind of thing. But I don't think it's something that we can take our eye off the ball. It's, it's something that we need to pay close attention to. And well, so I don't know if concerned is the right word. Certainly it's something that we remain focused on

Cole Stefiuk:

And prepared for. I hope,

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah. We learned so much as a result of going through the last 18 months that I think we're far better prepared than we were going in. Obviously that's not saying anything that everyone doesn't know, but I think it's important to just keep that preparedness close to us. And it informs the plans that we build. It informs the, um, the, the budget that comes in front of, of council. Um, and I think it informs a lot of the way people do business in our town. We are, I have noticed that a lot of the plexiglass has stayed up, um, and you know, a lot of those protocols that keep people from getting COVID can help us not get colds and flus, which is a good benefit. Yeah, for sure. For sure. All right. Uh, my ask Cole, anything is a little, um, related to your previous experience. Do you want to be a morning show host on a local radio station one day? Uh, well, I was just so, you know, call spent the last, how long two weeks?

Cole Stefiuk:

Two weeks covering for Darren in the mornings. Yeah, I actually, I, I was before, so yeah. So when I worked, when I was in Prince Rupert, I was the morning I was the Darren McPeake in Prince Rupert. Um, it was, uh, it was awful for a lot of reasons. Uh, I was, I think, I think to answer your question simply yes, one day, that is exactly what I want. Um, I think I learned this the hard way. I was not, um, mature enough to do it when I did it before. I think now I've learned a little bit more, like I used to, I was 22 when I was a morning show host. So I was, you know, up with my friends till 12 one in the morning, and then I'd be at work at four and that's not sustainable at all. It caused a lot of problems. It made me quit radio, to be honest until this opportunity came up. So yes, eventually, but for right now, I think I'm happy with the afternoons. I think I'm happy and Whistler, and I think I'm happy sleeping till not four in the morning, three 30 in the morning.

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah. Right, good. Let's get after last week's headlines, I give Cole three options. He chooses one or we discuss it. So the first is new mobile medical service designed to fill healthcare gaps in Whistler. The second Vail Resorts names, the new CEO, and third as visitation ramps up Whistler's labor shortage, intensifies, anything jump at you. Those are

Cole Stefiuk:

All a very, what was the first one? Again,

Mayor Crompton:

It is new mobile medical service designed to fill the healthcare gap in Whistler. So

Cole Stefiuk:

That one, to me sounds like the most interesting cause that I, that one leaves so much open. So I need to know what that's about if we're going to go down.

Mayor Crompton:

Okay. All right. So a local doctor named Clark Lewis has decided that he is going to, um, offer his services on a mobile basis. So he's set up a sprinter van, I think it is, and he'll come to your house and he will, you know, give you a physical or, or talk to you about the, um, your, your health and how you can, uh, in invest in yourself and ensure that you're healthy. And so it's, it's one, another way that our community can access, uh, primary health care, which is a big deal. And it's a challenge in this town because it's expensive to run a primary, uh, care center. So we previously talked to Karen Kausky about ideas around, um, a community health clinic. Um, this would is, is very different than that. And that it's it's, these people will come to your health, uh, rather than, uh, a center where you can access different kinds of care. But it's pretty exciting. It's, uh, someone that's invested in this town for some time and striking out on their own and doing things in a, in a new and a different way.

Cole Stefiuk:

Yeah. Oh, I think that's a very cool idea. Something that you don't see that much anywhere at all. I feel like that's a pretty, fairly new concept, right?

Mayor Crompton:

New, but very old. I mean, the, the old, like a little black bag and the stethoscope wagon coming to your house to put a thermometer in your mouth and take your temperature like that cliche I think is, is, is bringing it back.

Cole Stefiuk:

Yeah. A modern version of this is new. Yeah. It's like, it's a, it's a modern version of an old school tactic, I guess. Yeah. But that's really cool. That's interesting as heck for sure.

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah. That's great. Well, let's get to our discussion of housing with Marla Zucht has invested deeply in Whistler and in our housing sector, she is the general manager of the Whistler Housing Authority. Uh, having served in that role for some time under Marla's leadership, the WHA continues to maintain and augment its inventory of resident restricted housing, so that both rental and ownership, accommodation are available and affordable for local income earners and retirees. The WHA is a recognized leader in providing affordable housing through an innovative non-market ownership model. Whistler is the main of Marla's work, but it is fair to say she is not just a housing leader here. Marla speaks widely on the WHA model and how it works to provide professionally affordable housing to community residents in her free time. Marla is an active triathlete. She is an Ironman many times over having qualified for and competed in the Ironman world championships in Kona, Hawaii. Marla, thank you for taking the time to join us today. Welcome.

Marla Zucht:

Thank you, Jack. And thank you for that introduction.

Mayor Crompton:

Um, it's all true. As we always say after it's done. Um, so we start with rapid fire. I just want to let our listeners get to know you a little bit. What music are you listening to?

Marla Zucht:

Um, older music, I would say, but older, the, probably the, I like the eighties and the nineties music,

Mayor Crompton:

Eighties and the nineties. Perfect. That, um, Cole that's your specialty, Hey, Cole

Cole Stefiuk:

Mountain FM. It was over there. Or what

Mayor Crompton:

At, what are you most curious about these days?

Marla Zucht:

I suppose, you know, impact of climate change is a one that's very near and dear to me. So it's something that I follow with a lot of interest, curiosity, and you know, what changes that we're going to be seen in our community, around our country, around our planets. So, yeah, climate change

Mayor Crompton:

And changes. We are seeing today

Marla Zucht:

Mainly the, the new smoke that has come into Whistler and just all the impacts. Yes. Yeah.

Mayor Crompton:

Why triathlons

Marla Zucht:

Multi-sport um, and the endurance sports, uh, I've, I've just been, I gravitate towards longer distance sports and I guess I couldn't choose one that I liked the best. So between running biking, swimming, I enjoy them all. So to do a sport that I get to do them all, I often, as I was watching the Olympics, watching the heptathlon and the decathlon thinking if I had known about those, when I was younger, I probably would have enjoyed participating in those. Cause I do like the variety in sport.

Mayor Crompton:

Do you remember your first travel?

Marla Zucht:

I do. I do. Um, Harrison Hot Springs and I was a terrible swimmer. I'm not a great swimmer now, but I was the last out of the water. I remember getting out of the lake turning around and seeing there was nobody behind me. I'm like, wow, well, I guess I only have the opportunity here to try to pass if you people I'm not going to get past. So since then, um, it's no swimming is no longer my nemesis I've come to really enjoy it and feel so blessed to live close to Alta lake where I get in the lake as much as I can. So, so yes, it feels like a long time ago now.

Mayor Crompton:

Right on, well, thank you those quick answers. Uh, we want to talk and I think we'll talk mostly today about your work at the Whistler Housing Authority. I think most Whistler rights have heard about the WHA um, and have some sense for what it does. Um, some I'm sure of those perceptions are very accurate. Some aren't, uh, according to M arla Z urich, what is the Whistler housing authority?

Marla Zucht:

Well, the Whistler has an authority is a really important organization for the Whistler community. And I mean, I think of it as a legacy for the community, but it's also an ongoing evolution. It was created in the 1990s by our municipal council who had the forethought, I suppose, of going down to visit some of the are American resort communities that were more forerunners in the resort community, um, of tourism and looking at the, I suppose, impacts of when employees are not able to live locally within their communities. And, you know, our council realized, I think pretty quickly the, the benefits of having employees live locally and the disadvantages when that doesn't occur. So, you know, when the council of the day in the 1990s came back and created the housing authority with the idea that, you know, we needed to have an organization that would oversee, um, an inventory of housing, that's affordable, accessible to the local workforce, that was, you know, a really paramount decision for our communities. I think, you know, development or evolution, and it's been so important to our community. We now have amassed a sizeable inventory in Whistler of about 6,600 employee beds. So for a population of 12,000, approximately that's, that's a really impressive number of affordable housing units for our community. And just, I think the impact you know, I think we all know of seen and having our local workforce live locally, it's really significant. I think, you know, most would be well, some would be aware that Whistler has a community goal of housing, 75% of our workforce locally within our municipal boundaries. And we've been exceeding that target for really the last 10 years of housing close to 80% of our workforce. And, you know, to be able to provide that by telling it within our communities. And yeah, and we were able to do that because of the inventory of employee housing that we have created. And it hasn't just been created by the Whistler housing authority. There's been really important partnerships with the private sector that's been created as well with the business community. And we've certainly been very fortunate to have had fantastic partnerships with other levels of government, both the provincial government and the federal government to support Whistler in our employee housing endeavors. We've just recently received well in the last five years, about$11 million in government support between the federal government and provincial government to continue to grow our employee housing base. So the Whistler Housing Authority, as you mentioned in the intro has become a really recognized entity and, you know, forerunner in, in affordable housing non-market housing inventory. And I think our community has created really great legacy, and we've been lucky to have the political support and the political leadership to continue to invest in employee housing for the workforce.

Mayor Crompton:

Uh, Nancy Wilhelm Morden tells part of the story. You, you told us about one of the things they recognized on that tour of, of those US resorts was no kids in those communities, which is a real sign that there was no permanent or very little permanent community in those towns, just for information of, of listeners, where do most, um, workers in places like Aspen live

Marla Zucht:

Well in many of the resort communities, be it Aspen, Vail, Breckenridge, they would be living outside of the community down valley. So not great in the community. And I don't know for yourself how many times I've had this conversation, asked to me when I've been sitting on a chair lift from tourists, like, where does everybody live? And, you know, I say it with pride and I'm so proud that we can say most of them, most of the employees live in this community. I mean, they live all and they live all around the community. You know, there's not just specific pockets. Um, I think we've done a really, we've had a concerted effort to have our employee housing development spread throughout the community, which I think has been a great thing. And I are the employee housing communities, neighborhoods, I always think are these microcosmic gems within Whistler because they're vibrant. They they're full of families. They're full of young kids. They're full of energy. Yeah. So I, you know, I, I often think it's a great testament when we have market home owners that want to sell and come into the employee housing inventory, because I think it's, well recognized that the employee housing neighborhoods be it Cheakamus Crossing, Rainbow, Spruce Grove, 19 Mile Creek. They are really great little communities.

Mayor Crompton:

So the word I think they bring is vibrancy. Those are such vibrant parts of our communities, really attractive places to live. Um, another story that gets told a lot is, uh, about the 19 Mile Creek, um, decision to put employee housing in a neighborhood and the public process that was attached to it in a lot of the opposition that existed. And the suggestion that if you put employee housing in a neighborhood, it will bring crime, it will bring, you know, negative things to Alpine. Um, in retrospect, nothing could be further from the truth it's brought, um, you know, real, real, true vibrancy to Alpine Meadows in a, in a way that sort of empty homes cannot, will not and, and have not. Um, so I think you're right. I think that, that, that idea that those are the gems in this community is true. And now that we've really, I think you've really, but I think we can all own it, which is kind of nice. Uh, you've really delivered on that vision of trying to see this kind of housing incorporated rather than, than, um, sequestered into, into one area, which is a good reminder because, um, you know, we are building a lot of employee housing and checklists, which I think is great, but then communities and neighborhoods like Bayshore as Alta Vista and Alpine miss out.

Marla Zucht:

Yes, yes. But I, you know, going back to, I was thinking of also recently about that 19 Mile Creek, uh, public hearing and the, just the vociferous opposition that occurred back then to the employee housing neighborhoods. And thankfully that just no longer occurs in Whistler. I mean, you know, sure. There may be some, um, some opponents to aspects of employee housing, new developments, but by and large in Whistler, I think our employee housing products are complexes are very well entrenched. They're well embraced. And that also is very unique for other other communities that I present in. I mean, they continue to have such opposition to additional, you know, employee housing, workforce housing, affordable housing developments in Whistler. It is just such a part of our fabric now. And, you know, I think we're, we're so fortunate to have that too. And what's, there would be a really different place if we didn't have the employee housing program that we have here today.

Mayor Crompton:

That step across the threshold at 19 Mile and then others that followed it, where that sort of confident decision that this is important, um, built capacity that we now enjoy, that the community thought about it, the community had, you know, thorough debate about it. The community stepped across the threshold and now looks back and says, we're glad we did that. We, we live here now, 80 plus percent of people who work here, live here. So, um, those community debates are important to have because they build something of value.

Marla Zucht:

Absolutely true. And we live in here that all the time in our office end. Um, yeah, when people potentially are, we can get into this a little bit later, but if, if there's a sentiment that are concerned that somebody is abusing the employee housing program, we hear about it from neighbors because there is such a buy-in as you say, like, people feel so strongly about the program, about the neighborhoods in which they live in and making sure they're protected for the workforce. And, you know, we, we really get a lot of great feedback from neighbors or community members who feel like, um, yeah, it would be wrong if you're abusing the program. So again, great buy-in that has been created and built up in our community for the belief in employee housing. And, you know, the importance of it.

Mayor Crompton:

Talk to me about 6,600 bed units of housing in a town of 12,000 people. What would, I mean, in my head that's half the number of beds available for the full number of people. What would your typical community across Canada have as far as their workforce housing is concerned? Do you know?

Marla Zucht:

Well, I mean, it would be a fraction of that. I think, you know, Whistler really is the leader now in the number of the inventory that we've created for employee housing, it would be a fraction and it is a fraction of it in other communities. And hence why so many look to Whistler to learn about our model? Honestly, we are inundated with inquiries from rate across the country, right across, we get them from Powell river to, from Sudbury. We've had them from new south Wales. We've had them from Wellington all over the world. People wanting to learn about the housing model it's published in a university planning textbooks. So it really is, um, uh, yeah, it's a well-regarded well-recognized model or alternative for housing, um, for the local community.

Mayor Crompton:

I read an article from a few years ago when I think our housing challenges weren't as acute as they are today, it was in Powder Magazine. It was called, has Whistler Solved its Housing Crunch. Uh, your response to that question was we are definitely saw quote, you now you say we are definitely still feeling a housing shortage. And then you went on to say, there's no one solution to this issue. It requires a multifaceted approach and collaboration between many community members and support of the local government. Talk to us about the idea that the housing challenge will be, can be solved. What is, what, when someone says solve the housing problem, what goes through your head? Yeah,

Marla Zucht:

I think that is a really, uh, untenable unrealistic notion. I think if, if we didn't have, uh, I think the housing challenge is the, you know, the need for providing more housing for our workforce, but that's also driven by the demand for more people coming to Whistler. And I think if we didn't have that demand, Whistler would be in a much more serious situation. So, I mean, we, we will continue to, we have created such great momentum and we will continue and we are continuing to build and create additional solutions for employee housing opportunities, but will we ever have it solved? I don't think so. I mean, I think the Whistler would be in a much worse situation if, if there was no longer a need for more employee housing. So, but suffice to say there's still lots of work to be done. And we know that and recognize that to be providing more housing along the housing continuum for our community. And, you know, that means providing a diverse range of housing options, some for more vulnerable populations within our community and just continuing to have a diversity of housing so that you don't get stuck along that housing continuum. And, you know, I think we have per the current inventory is already quite diverse. We have a range between, we have 153 suites of employee housing. We have 658 apartment units. We have 147 detached houses, 711 townhouses. So, you know, we do have a diversity and within that is split between the ownership, affordable ownership and affordable rental housing. But there, you know, there's still populations within Whistler that I think, you know, we, we need to keep our sights on making sure that we can be providing housing. Having said that, uh, you know, the housing authority can't be the only provider, the only answer to the housing concerns or challenges in Whistler. And I think, you know, there are partnerships that continue to be made and continue to be nurtured. And I think those are really important partnerships with, be it with the private sector, the private developer employee housing units that are being proposed. And council's looking at now are an important piece of our employee housing needs, you know, working again with, uh, not other nonprofit organizations within the Sea to Sky corridor, you know, who are more ex they have they're experts in the service providers for vulnerable populations that, you know, might not otherwise be being, uh, uh, adequately housed, you know, and again, the partnerships with our other levels of governments also important, but the support that we continue to receive from the community, from our government partners, from our local government of course, are so important and addressing all of those, um, challenges and solutions.

Mayor Crompton:

So the, the WHA or correct me if I'm wrong, my understanding of WHA is that our primary focus hasn't been on, um, short-term residents of our community, people here from six months to, uh, uh, a year and a half, that our primary focus is on people that are, um, uh, you know, the PR the permanent workforce. Is that true?

Marla Zucht:

That that is true. I mean, the, the focus within our, well, both our rental program and like us the home ownership program. The rental program, our leases are all require a one year commitment to a one-year lease that lease. So we are not targeting seasonal, um, employees, you know, we, the business communities tend to, um, step up and whether it's Vail, Whistler Blackcomb or some of the larger, um, hotels they are providing, the more the short-term accommodations, I would say. And of course the market is a Whistler housing authorities or rental inventory is targeted. And it does accommodate the, the longer term, like a minimum of one year for the rental housing. And then obviously once you're into the owner, affordable home ownership model, longer term employees as well. Okay.

Mayor Crompton:

What qualifies someone to be on the WHA rental list and what qualifies someone to be on the WHAownership? Right. Well, first big question, you get the next 25 minutes.

Marla Zucht:

So, uh, full-time employment hours, and, you know, we've just moved to the 30 hours a week. So you have to be employed within Whistler at a, uh, Whistler business. Um, so that, that is the main criteria. Um, you can't own other real estate, um, to be able to purchase our into our program. And we, we continue to look at, um, and this is part of evolution of the program. We continue to look at the eligibility criteria because, you know, the demographics have changed over time and what works and what doesn't work. So we do, we do make changes to the eligibility criteria. As you know, in like July, 2019, there were some larger changes that were made to the employee housing rental program, eligibility criteria, and a year and a half later, you know, we've, we've gone back and kind of reviewed some of those new changes and are making some additional tweaks done. Well, you know, what seems like it will work better for the program. So on the eligibility side, um, the ownership of other market real estate is not allowed within the program. Um, but, and those are, those are probably the most, the, the significant ones Jack, that, you know, the employee base and that you are working in Whistler for a minimum of 30 hours a week.

Mayor Crompton:

And if I bought in 20 years ago, the, the, uh, the qual, the criteria that I met may be very different than what someone meets today. Correct?

Marla Zucht:

Absolutely. That is very correct. And, you know, again, that goes back to the evolution of the program having been in existence over 20 years. And, you know, we recognize that because the program has evolved, it has various nuances within it. You know, these restrictions are, I'm going to say used, housed within the, that the housing agreements they've changed over time. Although they're called a standard charge terms, the legal term, they are anything but standard, they have evolved. And because of that, it does, it has created, I suppose, some confusion because to try to understand all the nuances in the different, um, housing agreements is complex, you know, and it's something we recognize. Absolutely. And we try to provide information as much as possible, but that's an ongoing piece of work for us. And, you know, you can never kind of communicate and engage enough with the community. So it's something we're just embarking on a new community and engagement strategy. So, because for us, it's really important to try to get as much of that factual information out to the community, because we know without it, it does create confusion when confusion can lead to frustrations where people just don't understand the various changes that have taken place over the 20 year period of the program's existence. So an owner in Millers Ridge may have different restrictions such as they can rent out their unit, whereas an owner in well, 20 years later, the housing agreements have changed and they can't rent out their unit if they own it, it has to be their primary residence. So those differences in the housing agreements, and those are legal documents that are registered on title. So, you know, they can only be changed when the unit turns over and sells, and we do about 30 resales a year through our office. So, I mean, they do turn over gradually, but suffice to say, we have quite a diversity in the program and in the rules and the guidelines of the program, because it has evolved over time. And that's something I think the community, you know, it, it takes a lot of time to understand that. And we spend a lot of time at our office trying to explain that, and, and we very much welcome and encourage people to contact the housing authority, to get a greater understanding if they, if they are unsure contact our office, we've got really great, dedicated, informed, caring staff that want to answer those questions. They have the housing interests the community in mind, of course, and rather than listen to potentially rumors or hearsay or a sensationalized gossip about, you know, what so-and-so can do, or, you know, so-and-so in this complex. I mean, we, we really encourage the public to contact the office directly to get the factual information, because we appreciate that the program has changed, evolved, grow considerably over 20 years, and there are differences within it.

Mayor Crompton:

And as nice as it would be, if it, you know, was everything was precisely the same as it was when all of this started. I think that that flexibility and commitment to learning and improving is maybe one of the key marks of the WHA and why it's been so successful over time.

Marla Zucht:

Yeah. It has continued to be very dynamic you're right. It's it, you know, it hasn't been a static program. We haven't been afraid to look back, reflect and say, you know what, that's not working great. And, you know, we can use the example of the housing price, the formulas on the ownership units we've changed. Those have changed three times over there, the existence of the program, because we've been concerned about the affordability of those units for owners. So we identified that they weren't meeting the needs of what we thought was best for the community. We consulted with the community and changed them. And we haven't, I suppose we haven't been afraid to make those changes. We don't want to say, well, it's always been that way just because it's always been that way with them, you know, we want continue to improve and you know, that, that, that, that takes time. But it also takes, you know, we, we do listen, we're very open to receiving the feedback from the community. And again, just so that we can strive to serve the best interests of the community and community's diverse. So, yeah.

Mayor Crompton:

So there's a lot of talk in our community about WHA wait lists. Yeah. So, and we just quickly, we use wait-lists rather than lotteries or sector targeted housing or, or other models, is there a reason why we chose wait-lists

Marla Zucht:

The program started with a lottery system, like in the nineties, but I think it was quickly deemed that, you know, there wasn't enough, uh, maybe the sense of security there or predictability that wait lists provide, uh, the applicants who are on it with the knowledge that with time, their name is going to come up to the top of the list. It's not a random, um, opportunity here. So as the waitlists have grown, obviously those wait times have also grown. But, um, as I said, we, we have about, you know, on the ownership side, we see about 30 units turnover and sell every year. So, you know, over two a month, and on the rental side of the rental inventory, we see about 20 units turnover in the rental inventory. So there is regular turnover. And as we bring on new product, which we have been, I mean, I think maybe there's not a good understanding that since, since the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games, we actually have brought after the, that athlete's village was brought on, we've brought on 275 new rental beds in the last five years. And so there's new product that is coming on that has come onto the community and will, we will be bringing more on down and Cheakamus Crossing Phase Two. So the wait lists, be it the ownership and the rental wait list, although they sound like they may be long as you, you know, you hear a number of about a thousand households on either one of those lists with overlap, because about 20% are on both. You know, it is just a matter of time while we move through them. So does,

Mayor Crompton:

Does the first person on the list always purchase or rent the building they are offered?

Marla Zucht:

No, they rarely is the first person. It may be the first person, if it's for a single family dwelling, that's been waiting on the list for 15 years, but that would be an anomaly that is not usually the case. In fact, it's probably closer than maybe the 10th person on the wait list. So I think I'm going to have

Mayor Crompton:

And how far do, will it go down? How far have they gone down the list?

Marla Zucht:

It, and sometimes we, we we've exhausted the wait list, like for the last new building that we brought on the, the rental building, which is called Granite Ridge and 1330 Cheakamus we went through the entire rental. Wait, so, um, yeah, although it, they sound like they may be long. We always say, you know, the average wait time is probably only two years for the rental, maybe three years for the ownerships. So depending on, you know, the specific unit that you're looking at, the more, uh, the more picky, I guess you are, the more specific you are on that type of unit that you want the longer the wait is going to be, but the opportunities definitely are regular and available for new units coming up.

Mayor Crompton:

Those numbers of two years on the rental and three years on the ownership, those numbers are related to when the person actually will make the purchase or sign the lease agreement, or would that be tied to their first offer?

Marla Zucht:

Yes, probably the latter. Yeah.

Cole Stefiuk:

Okay. So I have a question on this real quick, if you don't mind. Cause I don't know a lot about the housing market in Whistler, but I ha I am on a waitlist for rentals in on the, WHA it was quite a roller coaster for me because I was like, oh, this is a great opportunity. And this is great. And then yeah, you said the waitlist said there was going to be about two and a half years. And I was like, whoa. Okay. Um, for both of you guys, I guess, like, obviously they're working on expanding the WHA something that you guys are working on, so maybe that either comes down or there's more opportunities to, for people to get in. Right. Because for me, like, just as a layman who doesn't really know much about this, that was such a roller coaster for me. And it kind of like, I got to felt the flavor that I wasn't sure that's how it was. So I don't know if there's something that you guys are working on to expand or whatever.

Marla Zucht:

And Cole just so I understand. So when you say you got deflated, you got deflated when you heard that it would be about two.

Cole Stefiuk:

I just didn't know what I was getting into when I first signed up, because I thought, okay, cool. The affordable housing link or whatever, like, you know, and then I didn't realize what the WHA was when I first got there. Right. So it's totally on me, not on you. And I know housing is not something you can just snap your fingers on and have all these two new units.

Marla Zucht:

Yes, yes, yes. And we, we do get that a lot with people that have just freshly moved to the community and, you know, good on them that the, one of the first things they do is they put their name on a wait list. Yeah. They've just arrived. They've got their job and they add their name to the wait list. But then they're kind of surprised when they hear, well, it's probably going to be about two years. I mean, although we, this program exists for the workforce and we have an inventory, um, 6,600 beds, uh, you know, there's no vacancies, of course you have the inventory, they are all full. Um, so, you know, until units turnover, and as you say, well, until we build new, which we are constantly, um, building new and we have, uh, you know, our sites on a, another large development down in Cheakamus Crossing for phase two. So there will be new product coming on, but there is no vacancies in the current inventory I've always

Cole Stefiuk:

Asked me so that if there's anyone who's losing a little bit of hope and there's, there's more in the future and there's expansion coming in a way is what I was trying to ask.

Mayor Crompton:

Y eah. Y es, exactly. Y eah. I think too, I would say C ole is that one of the, the, the messages that I talk to a lot of people about is that this is primarily targeting people that are going to stay in Whistler for a long time. And so, u m, yeah, I wish it was shorter than two years as well. And, and certainly that's a goal and that's why we build more. U m, but really the intention is to allow people to stay for 20 years. And, u m, and that's been, what I find so inspiring about the program is that it has allowed for a permanent community to be here. And for me, the, the seasonal worker in this community is very much a Whistlerite? They are very much a part of this community and critical to, to what this community is and does. And I hope that they stay for a long time. And so my hope is that someone like you, who puts their name on that list, ends up being here for the year and a half to two years, that is required to be able to make you a l ong-term, u h, resident of this community, b ecause what you put in is so critical to, to our, our community. So, u m, we can always do better. We're always trying to do better, but I think what we have is allowing for something pretty special around, I d on't know

Cole Stefiuk:

I definitely see like the immense value in the WHS. Oh,

Mayor Crompton:

I didn't hear you talking trash about it. I

Cole Stefiuk:

Just wanna make sure you know, that, that a lot of people ask. Yeah. There's a lot Of people who are gonna move in and have the same questions as I do. And that's why. Yeah,

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah, yeah. Don't ever ask questions ever again

Cole Stefiuk:

Trash. You'll know I'm talking trash. How about that?

Mayor Crompton:

So a person be on the wait list if they already own a unit in the Whistler Housing Authority.

Marla Zucht:

Yes, definitely. And that's part of enabling our community members to move through the, that housing continuum that I spoke about earlier. So we recognize that, you know, that that's an important trajectory for people. So, you know, quite often we see, you know, singles will move into perhaps a one bedroom and then they couple up and then they go into a two bedroom and then have, you know, start a family and then they want to go into a three-bedroom or a duplex. So that happens regularly that we do have, um, owners move through the various ownership units and or renters, and wha then the buy in to the ownership program, you know, and all that creates that domino effect as well of the turnover of other units opening up. So, but yes, um, definitely once you're on the wait list and you've purchased a unit, you can stay on the wait list and you can purchase another unit, but granted you have to, you will have to sell your other unit, but, um, you can't, you can't own two employee housing units, but you can certainly move through the housing continuum

Mayor Crompton:

And how many people on the list already own in the inventory

Marla Zucht:

About 20%. Okay.

Mayor Crompton:

Marla, as I prepared today, I thought there's some myths around the WHA that should be busted. So do you have, in your mind myths about the WHA that you can bust here today once and for all?

Marla Zucht:

Well, I think a lot of them that we hear and grapple with, um, relate back to the, I think the confusion around the differences in the housing covenants, for example, um, one that we often hear or people wonder, can do employee housing owners have to occupy their WHA property as their primary residence. You know, I wish the simple answer was yes, of course, but it's not because the older properties with the older covenants do allow for owners to rent out their units. So they don't need to use them as their primary residence. That is something we've watched and have evolved. And we changed the covenants so that the newer products, the newer properties, yes, you have to, as an owner, occupy your employee housing unit as your primary residence, you can't rent it out, but there, those are differences within the inventory. So it's not so much a myth. It's, it's, it's an understanding issue. Another one is you can't own market real estate as a WHA owner, you know, is that the case? Well, once you've actually purchased into the inventory, then you can actually go out and buy a property so long as you're not going to be able to be on the wait list again. And you have to continue to occupy your unit, um, as your primary residence. So, you know, again, these are more confusion, I think, or more just misunderstandings because the program and the rules have changed and evolved and been dynamic over the past 20 years, I guess one of the ones that I still laugh at 15 years ago, we changed within the program. You used to get strikes when you were on the wait list, you have three opportunities to buy a unit. And if you, if you turn down all three, then your name would get moved to the bottom of the wait list that we did away with that, like in 2005, but people still act some people, some people that, that have been around the community for a while, still think that exists. And we still get asked about the strike policy. So I'd love to put that one to rest that there is no longer a three strike rule. Um, but that one still seems to linger, um, for some. So I think a lot of it is, you know, there's less about the myths and more about misunderstanding. Then I, again, I, I can't reiterate enough that, uh, just encourage people to contact our office directly, to get the good factual information on, if there's something that's confusing to them with the program, we're here to help and here to debunk any of those myths or misunderstandings. Right.

Mayor Crompton:

Um, so we've talked a lot today or sort of mentioned it as we've talked about other things, but there is a huge amount of new inventory that the WHA has brought on in the last few years. Talk to us about, you know, recent new buildings and, and future. What, what do you see out the front window as far as what we will see built in the future?

Marla Zucht:

Sure. Well, and even just in the past, what we've brought on in the last five years, starting with, we did three new projects down in Cheakamus Crossing, and that would be down at Cloudburst and on Legacy Way. So two projects on Cloudburst Drive, and one on Legacy Way, the Legacy Way, one was a super exciting project because that was our first certified apartment building, really first certified apartment building, passive house certified apartment building outside of the lower mainland. So really innovative. We received funding from the federal government to pursue that innovation. And it's a really outstanding building. It's already started to win awards. Um, it's quite a, yeah, it's quite a marvelous building. So for anybody that hasn't had a chance to see that yet that's the Legacy Way, passive house building down at the entrance to Cheakamus Crossing. And then we also brought on, um, at, down at, at Rainbow 8350 Bear Paw Trail known as Lumina, the name it's our first dedicated seniors rental building. So there's 20 units they're dedicated to seniors. So, um, overall that was 275 new beds that were brought onto the community in the last five years done in partnerships with all three levels of government and certainly very appreciative and thankful for that support to make those come to fruition. And then looking ahead, you had lots of new development opportunities that are taking place now in Cheakamus Crossing. So for anybody that hasn't been down to Cheakamus Crossing recently, you'll see what we call personal a on Mount Fee Drive the, you know, the start of the apartment building, which is going to be another a hundred units coming to the community here next year. And then we've got plans already working in partnerships here with Whistler Development Corporation for another three parcels, no one has BC and D one. Um, so there will be, and that's, that's just on our side that like the public sector side. And of course there's also privates, a private developer led employee housing opportunities that we are hopeful. We're going to see, um, come to fruition as well, which are going to be providing more housing opportunities for the workforce. So I guess my message would be stay patient there. There is more housing coming and, you know, we look forward to the opportunity to roll those out to the community

Mayor Crompton:

And the recent buildings. Have they been majority ownership or rental rental?

Marla Zucht:

So the last four buildings that the WHA developed and financed have all been rental. So that 275 new beds are all rentals.

Mayor Crompton:

And what do you see in the future? Do you see a mix of both? What's the,

Marla Zucht:

Uh, yes, a mix of both. So I believe it sounds like parcel A, now the first new development that's going to take place and Cheakamus Crossing phase two is going to be an ownership offering and of a hundred new units. So the plans for that are just being finalized for the rollout to the communities. But I think that is going to be now, uh, an ownership, affordable ownership opportunity. And then, you know, we're hearing a mix, but for the private developer led products that some will be ownership, some will be rental. And then the WHA we'll continue to look at what the needs are of the community and based on the waitlist demographics and demands, whether we do more ownership, do more rental, I think both are going to be coming on. We're going to see both within the next, probably five years, some new opportunities, the workforce

Mayor Crompton:

Marla, we finish these podcasts with the same question for everyone, which is what are you reading? What podcasts are you listening to that you find interesting and that you are learning from?

Marla Zucht:

I listened and learned from these podcasts Jack.

Mayor Crompton:

Ah a listener.

Marla Zucht:

Um, I have a diversity of them that I bounce around too. Um, so it kind of depends on what I'm doing, whether, whether I'm recreating, whether I'm cooking, whether I'm working out. So, yeah, and I suppose as far as reading, I just finished, um, Barack Obama's book and I mean, I love to read memoirs and yeah, more, um, non-fiction would be my preferred genre. So, but I'm a vociferous reader. So non-fiction

Mayor Crompton:

So like the life and times of whomever is fascinating and was what was Obama's book primarily about well in government or was it yeah. Um,

Marla Zucht:

And him leading up to it? Um, yeah, so I it's two parts. There's another SQL to come. I understand that. So he says, um, very, well-written very thorough, very comprehensive. It's quite the tome. I would say it's a large read, but really interesting. And

Mayor Crompton:

Have you read Becoming, there you go. You get the match to, oh, fantastic. Good. Well, um, Marla, I am so grateful that you took the time and I've always been so impressed at how you take, um, all of these, um, questions. So head on, and so direct. And I hope that when people do have questions, they will take you up on that offer to give you a call, uh, because, um, I don't find, um, anything more useful than getting your answers from the source. And, um, I'm grateful for how you have advocated for housing, not just within your organization or even our community. You have been someone who has really pushed housing forward, um, in the corridor, in the province, in the country. And I'm grateful and proud that we have you, uh, as, as a real, um, advocate for our community and for housing and someone who is making a difference. So it's a pleasure to have had you on and, and grateful that you took the time.

Marla Zucht:

Oh, thank you very much. And clearly, I mean, it is a passion of mine and I feel very, very strongly in it and the importance of it for all communities to have, you know, dedicated, affordable, accessible housing for the local population. So I think our communities are better places for it. And, you know, I I'm, I'm so proud of Whistler as a community for the humongous strides it has made in that regard. And who's really become a leader in the forefront of the community housing sector. So it's a, it's a great realm to be a part of. And the partnerships and the leadership showing within Whistler is really outstanding.

Mayor Crompton:

So Cole, uh, I guess how much longer do you have to wait? And in that two years that you were

Cole Stefiuk:

I guess the whole year, a bout last, last fall, so about a year and a bit left until I can get my rental.

Mayor Crompton:

Okay. That's good. One of the things that's neat about, um, about WHA rentals is they're secure. Like, yeah, they don't get sold. And that's why I think people stay in WHA rentals so long is that they are secure rental housing and aren't going to be sold by, by the owner.

Cole Stefiuk:

And I think that one thing that was, that was brought up to me that really helped me kind of feel less. I don't want to say jaded, but I was a little bit like upset because I was like two years. It seems like a lot, but when it was explained in a way of like, you know, this is for people who like not only want to live here, but want to stay here. And, and it's not, it's not meant for just anyone to just move in and move out. It's, it's really meant to like secure the community. It kind of changed my, my, my vibe on it a lot, because I was like, okay, then that's, it makes more sense. Now it's a committed group who are getting these opportunities and the committed group of people who are staying in our community. So I think that kind of changed the law for me, to be honest.

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah. It's, I mean, it's, it's still a bit of a, uh, I'll say the, I'm pretty jealous about that whole piece around the fact that, uh, who is a Whistlerite. To me, a Whistlerite. Is somebody who moves in here for, you know, six weeks and is going to actually make this town all than it is. And so that's a hard pill to swallow, I think for a lot of people. And I don't think just because the WHA doesn't fill that need that need, doesn't also then need to be met and it does. And that's why we have at council, given zoning for a new apartment building for Whistler Blackcomb staff housing. And, and so we need to do, um, both housing for seasonal workers and housing for the people that will stay for a long time. It's just understanding what the WHA's purpose is. Uh, and it's, it's the second and not the first

Cole Stefiuk:

And it's impossible to expect any organization, especially the WHA to, to just like, yeah, like I said earlier, snap your fingers and fix any, and all housing questions that are out there about right. It's just impossible. So yeah.

Mayor Crompton:

Anything jump out at you aside from that?

Cole Stefiuk:

Well, that was obviously the big one. I think, um, everything else was just, I mean, this is one of those conversations that I personally, like selfishly felt lost in, uh, mostly just because I don't quite understand this. This is so one of those things that you learn more about the community and moving to a resort municipality, like Whistler, it's so different than anywhere else I've lived. So I have this preconceived idea of how everything works. And then in Whistler things work a little differently. It's probably the same for the other resorts, like Banff, Jasper. It's very interesting to me and the conversations like this, just as a whole kind of help fill in the blanks in my head of what I think how a town is supposed to kind of operate, you know what I mean?

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the big sort of piece that overlays all of this is that without this inventory of 6,600 beds, a Whistler would be a place that only houses wealthy people and people would drive from long distances to provide services to those people. And that's not a compelling community to be a part, it's not a community. No. Um, and it's not a community, uh, just because those people aren't living in it, but also for the wealthy people who come to visit. I think one of the things that people enjoy about this place is not just the mountains and the lakes, it's the people.

Cole Stefiuk:

Yeah, of course.

Mayor Crompton:

Whistlerites are, uh, you know, a wonderful group of people to, to know and be a part of. The big overlaying vision i s, is pretty important to understand that without this inventory, we don't have a community c ause t he single family house costs four and a half million dollars.

Cole Stefiuk:

And it's, it's completely unsustainable to ever like without the WHA Whistler as the way Whistler is, is like you say, completely unsustainable without, you know, the WHA and, and similar projects.

Mayor Crompton:

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Well, uh, I really enjoyed that as I've been looking forward to talking to Marla for some time,

Cole Stefiuk:

Jack has been talking about this conversation for literal months, months, Jack has been so excited for this conversation.

Mayor Crompton:

Yeah, yeah. It is true. Well that was a lot of fun. This is brought to you by the Resort Municipality of Whistler and Mountain FM. He is Cole, I am Jack. Thanks for listening. See you next time.