In this episode of The Whistler Podcast, Councillor Cathy Jewett speaks with renowned contemporary indigenous artists Xwalacktun, from the Squamish Nation, and Levi Nelson, from the Lil’wat Nation.
Xwalacktun and Levi Nelson collaborated with James Hart on the recently unveiled two-part work The Three Watchmen (by Hart) which is placed on a carved band called The Great Flood (Ti A7xa7 St’ak’) (by Xwalacktun and Nelson) outside the Audain Art Museum. The location is on the shared, unceded territory of the Lil’wat (Lil̓wat7úl) Nation and Squamish (Sḵwx̱wú7mesh) Nation.
The artists discuss the stories depicted in The Three Watchmen as well as their artistic methods, cultural influences, and the intent behind their work.
In this episode of The Whistler Podcast, Councillor Cathy Jewett speaks with renowned contemporary indigenous artists Xwalacktun, from the Squamish Nation, and Levi Nelson, from the Lil’wat Nation.
Xwalacktun and Levi Nelson collaborated with James Hart on the recently unveiled two-part work The Three Watchmen (by Hart) which is placed on a carved band called The Great Flood (Ti A7xa7 St’ak’) (by Xwalacktun and Nelson) outside the Audain Art Museum. The location is on the shared, unceded territory of the Lil’wat (Lil̓wat7úl) Nation and Squamish (Sḵwx̱wú7mesh) Nation.
The artists discuss the stories depicted in The Three Watchmen as well as their artistic methods, cultural influences, and the intent behind their work.
Today on The Whistler Podcast
Levi Nelson:You still have that pizza box. Don't you?
:Yeah. It's uh, it's, it's framed inside of like a glass shadow box, like a really important piece of art inside the box. It still has like this, the pizza liner with a bit of sauce on it. And some like some of the, those yellow cornmeal grains that, that they put on the bottom of pizzas, which I should probably remove.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Hello everyone. I am Jack Crompton. He is Cole Stefiuk. This is The Whistler Podcast. We want to acknowledge that we live, work and play on the traditional unceded territory of the Lil'wat Nation and the Squamish Nation. It's been a while Cole. Nice to see your face
Cole Stefiuk:Yeah, it's good to be back. It's been way too long. Well, it's been like a month and a half since I've seen you. It's too long then.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yeah, I think so. It's, uh, holidays, people getting sick, which we'll talk about in the ask Cole anything section, just a little hint for what I'm teaser ask you to talk about. Yeah. But yeah. Did you have a good holiday?
Cole Stefiuk:Uh, yeah, I really did. I, uh, I went back to, uh, Ontario, uh, for the week before the Christmas, uh, weekend came home and spent the, you know, actual Christmas and my family and it was nice. It was relaxed right
Mayor Jack Crompton:What's in Ontario.
Cole Stefiuk:Uh, my girlfriend is originally from London.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Okay. Yes. The other London.
Cole Stefiuk:Yeah. Yeah, the less cool one is what I say. How was your, how was, how was your holidays with the fam?
Mayor Jack Crompton:Good. Yeah, I mean, it was a bit weird obviously. Uh, we had plans to, you know, really do a big family, uh, Christmas and that kind of thing, which kind of had to be reduced fairly significantly. We sort of hyped off into smaller groups that became sort of the group that we were hanging out with, which is, which was unfortunate, but, um, skiing was amazing. So yeah, it was, it was a good Christmas just not expecting to do another COVID Christmas, I guess is what was my disappointment. Yeah.
Cole Stefiuk:Omicron came at the worst time, you know
Mayor Jack Crompton:I totally did. Yeah, it was lovely. Um, so we are back this week for another one of the exceptional, incredible duet episodes where Cathy Jewett takes us on, uh, a journey through Whistler's history and art. We get to meet some pretty incredible people. I've been enjoying these episodes a lot and she's really put in a tremendous amount of work in preparation and ensuring that she understands the content well so that she can, uh, deliver a great interview, which I, I think she's really accomplished.
Cole Stefiuk:Yeah I could not. I, when we first started this podcast, I didn't think that a spinoff would ever be something that we got into, but I think Cathy has an amazing spinoff show of her own with these interviews. They're incredible. And learning about the art of this town is, is really cool. Yeah.
Mayor Jack Crompton:I, uh, I agree. Yeah. This week, this is, this will be our longest episode ever. Yes.
Cole Stefiuk:Correct. It's three interviews Jack.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yes. Yeah. So we've got an interview with Levi Nelson and Xwalacktun that starts the two of them with, uh, Cathy Jewett. And then she follows up with an individual interview with each of them. Yeah. Uh, which are, are pretty special. So Levi Nelson is a Lil'wat, artist who, um, born and raised in Mount Currie and Xwalacktun is, uh, a Squamish Nation artist. Both of whom have done a lot of work in this community, which will hear all about through this episode
Cole Stefiuk:And internationally as well, Levi called in from New York to do the interview, which is pretty cool.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Agreed. All right. Well, let's get to ask Cole anything, ask Jack anything. My question I hinted at a little bit, ask Cole anything you just suffered through COVID yes, I did tell us about suffering through COVID.
Cole Stefiuk:Uh, it was, it was underwhelming, I guess. Okay. It was, it was anti-climatic I think is the right word to use. Right. Because I mean, I work, you know, a job where I've been talking about COVID for two years, essentially. Yeah. And we've been listening to it nonstop from, you know, every, all the waves and everything we've been talking about and it's exhausting. Right. And when I started feeling sick, I was, I had it, I kept testing negative. It was weird. And as soon as I saw that second line on my rapid test, like two days after I started getting symptoms, it was kind of like the weirdest feeling I've ever had in my life. Right. Cause you know, I've been avoiding it and I've been talking about it for so long. And then all of a sudden I have it and I did not know what to expect because there's so much information it's overwhelming. And instead of just like taking it in stride, I mean, I did eventually take it in stride, but the morning I tested positive, it was like, my brain was just chaos. Like anything could have happened. Luckily it was just the head cold. Uh, you know, that's what a lot of people who have Omicron have been saying, it is just like a bad head cold. I was maybe sick for three days, the first night or the third when I had symptoms was like the worst. And I was like really sick and I couldn't sleep, but, uh, got better progressively. And three days later I was fine. The weirdest part, the weirdest part about this was I live with my girlfriend. She never got sick. We had a couple rapid tests. She never tested positive. Uh, and as soon as I tested positive, I locked myself in our a room, which has a connected bathroom. And I stayed there for 10 days. Like I stayed in that room. We had a shared balcony from the living room to the room I was in. So she would like put food on the table for me. She is incredible. And I owe her, uh, everything in the world because she was so incredible to me, but it was, it was weird that she never got sick and I just sat there and, you know, I thought it was gonna be, uh, and for some people I know it is. So I don't want to, I don't want to downplay the severity of what COVID could be. Um, I thought it was gonna be, you know, just pain suffering and, and fever and cold and flu for 10 days. And it was probably two days of feeling a little sick. Uh, and then I just watched a lot of TV. So my stories from my grandkids will be a little anticlimactic, but that's it that's, that was my experience. Everyone's experience will be different of course.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Uh, well, that, that kind of care from the people you live around is a big deal. Uh, that those are stories that we'll tell, I think for sure. Oh yeah. But you know, the kind of care that we shared for each other during this time, because it has not been easy know
Cole Stefiuk:All and the weirdest part, I think the weirdest part about this apart from my girlfriend not getting sick was that I don't even, I don't know where I got it. That's the craziest part. Like I just don't it's so weird. Because I wasn't being too reckless. I was more reckless in Ontario. I'll be honest. Yeah.
Mayor Jack Crompton:And then I was, well, I'm hearing that from a lot of people specific to Omicron. I don't know where I got it. Whereas previously people would say, you know, I went to my friend's house who had it and Omicron seems to just move quicker and is, is, is easier to get and less idea where I actually, uh, uh, picked it up. Yeah.
Cole Stefiuk:Totally.
Mayor Jack Crompton:All right. Uh, thank you for the review of your experience over view of COVID uh, moving on to ask Jack anything over to you.
Cole Stefiuk:All right, Jack. Well, it's been a long time since we talked since, uh, the Omicron spike, the Omicron wave, if you will, from your position and your standpoint, like what has, how has that affected, uh, you know, your day to day? Cuz obvious. See, the last time we talked life was peachy, there was nothing, everything was open, everything was good, everything was, was gravy. And then now it's like a new world a month later. I know we've said that a million times these past two years, but how has that changed for you in your role?
Mayor Jack Crompton:You know, I think a lot of it is bringing back what we had laid down when we sort of opened up through the, uh, BC restart plan, so it feels a little easier because we know what we're doing as an organization and as a community to get back into those actions that we've taken previously though, it feels a little more tiring because will this ever end? Yeah. And so, uh, yeah, I, I feel like it's, it's, it's, it's reinstituting a lot of what we lay down through the BC restart plan and, and it's kind of nice, there's, there's less sort of whole-cloth planning of what do we do now. It's it's things that we've done in the past and uh, and they are, they've become policies that we can is to serve our community better now, which is good.
Cole Stefiuk:You know, I guess that makes sense because when you think about it, right, like the first four waves or whatever, like the first, the first wave in particular, in the second one, even there was like a lot of unknown what is going on? We don't know what's happening. And I, I feel like, I guess that makes sense. It's probably not, I don't wanna say easier with every wave or spike because it's never easier, but I guess, you know yeah. You, the policies have been put in place before and it's easy to look back on. I guess that makes a lot of sense.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yeah. Yeah. Easier maybe, but way more exhausting. I mean, I have five waves of this. I remember when it was two weeks to flatten the curve.
Cole Stefiuk:Oh don't even, yeah. Two years later I was thinking about one of the things, because we have to do health questionnaire every time we come into work. Right. Um, and one of the Things like, do you have any of these symptoms and one of them is fatigue. Jack, have you not been feeling fatigued for two years?<laugh> like, I'm so excited. Yes. I have fatigue. Yeah. It's kinds crazy how that happens. Like uh it's ridiculous. Yeah. Regular fatigue or is there a special kind of fatigue? Yeah.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Exactly.
Cole Stefiuk:Oh man. Yeah.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Fatigue has become endemic. Yes. Yes. All right. Let's get to last week's headlines. I read three, Cole chooses one. We talk about it. The first one is Whistler welcomes it's first baby of 2022 Roneal Andre Sibal born at Squamish General Hospital on Sunday, January 2nd. The second is We Know the Highway Won't Fix Itself. Mayor says recent traffic congestion speaks to a need for both short term and long term solutions and three Whistler Blackcomb staff shortage prompts weekend ski school cancellation.
Cole Stefiuk:All good. I, well, the first one, I'll be honest. I do not get the hype around the new year's babies every year. They are congratulations.
Mayor Jack Crompton:It happens every year. It happens every
Cole Stefiuk:<laugh> you just happen still
Mayor Jack Crompton:Like welcome you don't you have to say welcome Reneal. Like welcome to the world, Reneal.
Cole Stefiuk:Yeah. Welcome and welcome to every baby born ever. I dunno.<laugh> that's really my personal thing. Um, okay. But I, I do think that because I mean, we've, it was more of the weather that was causing problems with it. But uh, and I know that you just said, mayor says, so you've already talked about this, but the, the roads and the transportation and the problems that are involved there let's let's talk about that one.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yeah. It was, it was unbelievable. As you know, the amount of snow we got the temperature that, that Arctic front was unbelievable and it just kept snowing. And we have an unique situation in our community where the main highway is a provincially owned and it's provincial jurisdiction from both a maintenance and a management point of view. And so that becomes challenging. Uh, I think a point, a lot of people made in our community is, well, that's a problem you need to deal with. You need to work well with the province to ensure that we respond well, when there's situations like this. And I completely agree. It's, it's something that we put a lot of thought to every single year. And my point was we really need long term and short term solutions to these situations. And yeah, it was a lot of snow and yeah, it was unusual to have that much at that time in the middle of, of our peak, um, visitation period. Um, but we're committed to making it better. And so I I've reached out to the, the minister of transportation. I'll be speaking to him. Our staff are talking to their colleagues at MOTI and then really thinking about what are the long term solutions. A lot of people talk about a parking lot south with, with buses into town that would take some of the traffic off the highway, uh, through town. People talk about expanding the capacity of the road and there's all manner of options that, that are sort of longer term a options, but that won't solve our problem today and, and that's really where we are putting a lot of our attention right now.
Cole Stefiuk:So out of curiosity, I mean, this, I don't know if this would make anything better when we get, you know, weeks like this we've had with the snow, what's the feasibility of finding, uh, like cuz like the highway in Whistler is such a main artery. It's so important to get from one side of town to the other. Is there any feasability to, you know, like in Squamish growing up there's like the highway, which goes through all of town, but there's also a couple of roads that go from top to bottom as well. So you don't have to take the highway at all if you don't want to, for the most part, is that feasible and Whistler at all?
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yeah. Well there were plans that would have a alternate route that would go from south of fun and would tie into West Side Road and, and you know that a lot of people will actually take west side road to make their way, uh, north a, around the lakes and, and come in on bay shores. Yeah. Uh, when the road gets really bad or come through, um, Alta Vista, uh, to access the highway when it's really bad. So yeah, that's possible. It's a huge investment. Yeah. And it's something that would hit the property taxpayer in Whistler only like there'd be no help from outside our community. So the tax implications would be significant, but nothing's off the table. Yeah. I mean we need to re have an all tools approach and be considering this from as many angles as we can somebody phone me the other day and said, well, why don't you guys provide priority clearing to a commuter bike and uh, and uh, pedestrian route from the village to function during that time. So instead of spending all of your time and energy clearing roads in neighborhoods, which is our, our responsibility, why don't you just go crazy on that road? So, uh, on the, on the Valley Trail, so that, uh, me as a resident could decide, forget it. I'm going to ride that bike highway right to Bayshores and everyone else can sit on the highway for three hours and I'll get to Beshores in 20 minutes along this preferred bike highway, which isn't out of the box idea. I, I I've been thinking about that a lot lately. We need to be willing to be creative and think outside of the boxes that we've built over time. And that's just one of the sort of out of the box solutions that seems a little more short term than another section of road that would wind around west side road or expanding the capacity of the highway. Um, you know, which wouldn't happen anytime soon.
Cole Stefiuk:That's a really good idea actually. Do you get a lot of armchair mayors telling you different station?
Mayor Jack Crompton:Oh, all the time. And they give the best ideas. Yeah. Seriously. Like, I guess when you think
Cole Stefiuk:About it, the whole job of being a mayor is listening to armchair mayors, right? Oh, totally.<laugh> yeah. It's so weird. Okay. Yeah. I like it. I like it. Well, that's awesome.
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, the, the, we gotta do something and, and we are, and uh, I'm I'm um, it was a fascinating holiday season. Well, we should, I mean, we are making a long episode way, way, way longer. I think we talked at the beginning about making this tight and short. So mission failed whole. We did not the shark that exactly. I just, before we get to, um, uh, Cathy and Levi and Xwalacktun, I wanna say that the Audain Art museum does these Tuesday night talks and Levi Nelson was the, um, artist who was interviewed by Dr. Curtis Collins at the previous Tuesday night talks. So if what you hear as part of this podcast really gets your attention, please, uh, tune in to the Audain Tuesday night talks it's on their website and you get to see, uh, a lot of the art that he'll be talking about. There's one painting that he's done the downtown east side that is so magical. I just am such a fan of it. It's um, anyway, if, if<laugh>, if you wanna see a magical painting and see him talk about it, do pay attention to Tuesday night talks and please enjoy, uh, this episode of the Jewett episode.
Cathy Jewett:Hi there, it's Cathy Jewett and I am here with Xwalacktun of the Squamish Nation and Levi Nelson of the Lil'wat Nation. They are both contemporary indigenous artists. We get to see their art almost every, a now in the village. Uh, there's a new piece called the Three Watchman that Xwalacktun and Levi worked on together with James Hart. And so I'm looking forward to hearing how, um, the two of you collaborated, especially since, uh, currently Levi's in New York. Um, so that's kind of a long way way, but we live, uh, in different times, don't we maybe we'll get started with Xwalacktun here, your, your part of the story of how this came to be.
Xwalacktun:Well, it started off by, um, you know, like I heard this piece is gonna come into Whistler and I said, well, there might be a bit of a controversy going on with this piece, because for me, I understand Haida cuz and I have a relative who is Squamish Haida. And the piece that sits on top of the pole usually representation out their. The three Watchmen are watching over their land. So when I understand that, what it means that we needed to focus on what can we do to make it sure that people that come here that the Haida actually own its land. So I suggest that we need put a, a Coast Salish base on it. So that the piece isn't actually touching the ground, it's sitting on a, Coast Salish like a platform just to acknowledge where this piece is sitting on. So that's where my hopes, wherever it's to, to show that recognition so that we, you know, all up and down the coast, we've been doing some tribal journeys. We is going through protocol acknowledging who we are, where we're from, what's the purpose of our visit. So everybody up and down the coast, we've done these tribal journeys now since 1993. So with all that, we needed to show respect with that. So if I were to go up to Haida Gwaii and do an art piece, you know, what'll happen to that piece because the Coast Salish design actually doesn't belong on Haida Gwaii. But although I suggested to Jim Hart that we need to do a piece to thank us for allowing them to have their artwork on our land. Right. So it's just sort of just dialogue right now, just, you know, we understand, you know, the Northern style actually helped bring out the Renaissance of the First Nations art, like with Bill Reed, Bill Holmes came up, you know, I even also copied Northern style art until eventually I started realizing no, we are Coast Salish artists here. But although my, my mother's side, I'm Kwakiutl, which we are totem pole people also, which we call Alert Bay. So, um, you know, it's just that acknowledgement where we are. So I was happy that it was gonna happen and it did happen.
Cathy Jewett:And how did, um, how did you connect with Levi, um, on this? So that's uh, Coast Salish uh, Levi you're, uh, you're from Lil'wat which is part of the St'át'imc, is that correct? Yeah. Also, uh, referred to as Interior Salish. And so here we have, um, a Haida art piece, but it sits on a base from coastal Salish, Interior Salish. You're bringing, uh, the peoples from, from this territory into the piece.
Xwalacktun:Yeah. Well I suggested that Levi that I already Squamish, we already have a story of the flood story and I was sharing, well, why don't we focus on the Lil'wat story of the, a flood story? And so we'll, we'll work on that idea, but, uh, but because it's a shared territory, we still had to have Coast Salish design on it. So I designed some Salish, Coast Salish design, and then, uh, Levi did the Lil'wat.
Cathy Jewett:And so Levi, some of the, um, the images that are in that base from Lil'wat are some, um, some pieces that we, uh, that we see or some images that we see in, in, uh, the SLCC, do we not they're from petroglyphs and pictographs.
Levi Nelson:Yes. Yep. So those, uh, the imagery that you find on the ring there, our design is called Ti A7xa7 St’ak’, which is the great flood in Lil'wat the Lil'wat language. And my aunty was telling me that the way that it's said, or the way that it's titled, uh, refers to the flood being here and the flood is already here. And so if you look at the design, um, where Xwalacktun, uh, we've made waves out of the Coast Salish eye and riding those waves are figures in, in the canoe that, uh, comes from a Lil'wat pictograph and then wrapped around the back. You'll notice, um, there's two wolves and one wolf is, uh, from the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh and the other wolf is a, is a highly stylized pictograph of, uh, he has two legs. So it's, it's a, it's a, it's like a man, half man, half wolf, or as, uh, Charlie Mack. One of my ancestors talks about the people are descendants of the Wolf Clan. And for me, this pictograph, which has also been spoken about by Johnny Jones as a wolf drumming in the moonlight. And so I refer to the design as a, a wolf drumming in the moonlight of a starry night because there's also punched holes as well. And he has two legs. He's playing a drum, but he has a wolf head. And in his mouth you could see, uh, the moon.
Cathy Jewett:And how does the, the Lil'wat, uh, story got the flood differ from the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh one?
Levi Nelson:Right? So according to Charlie Mack, the great flood, the creator was speaking to one of our ancestors named Nchinemqen. And my cousin today carries the name Nchinemqen, who works at the SLCC and Nchinemqen was, uh, what we might refer to as a prophet. The Creator was speaking to him and saying to him that there was a great flood coming and that the people needed to start to prepare for this. And the creator started to give him directions on what to do. And some of those directions were to gather, uh, a lot of the driftwood trees and to tie these together with inner cedar bark rope, which was, um, according to Charlie Mack, a new thing, um, and to also collect fish row in baskets for them to survive on or, or in our language is Kuna. And during this time, uh, Nchinemqen's brother was asking him, why are you making all of this rope out of inner cedar bark? We make our a rope out of deer hide and he said, I'm just I'm just doing what the, uh, Creator is telling me to do. And we need to get ready. We need to get your canoes ready because the water is coming. And his brother just kept sort of interrupting him and, and, Nchinemqen was still, you know, at work, gathering the materials and getting everybody ready and paired for the floodwaters that the Creator said was on the way. And the Creator told Nchinemqen that they would need to anchor their canoes to a mountain known as in shock. And in shock is, uh, sort of on the other side of Lillooet Lake, um, a bit further down, more towards the village of, in ch and it's, uh, another name for it is Gunsight Mountain. And it, it looks like a gun site. It has like these two peaks with this big space in between, which I'm told today still has still has, uh, a bit of like trees and, and, and logs left over from the great flood up there sitting between it. And the Creator told Nchinemqen that they would tie their, their, uh, their canoes with the inner cedar by rope to the top of this mountain. And Nchinemqen's brother was like, but that's not even the tallest mountain in our valley. Why are you gonna tie your canoes up there? And he said, well, I, I, I don't know, but I think it's because when the waters go down, we'll be able to have a softer landing and they tie their, the flood waters came, they tie their canoes up to the side of this mountain and, and Nchinemqen's brother was using deer hide as rope. And he tied themselves to, uh, to the side of the mountain, but the, the deer hide got wet and it started to stretch and stretch and stretch where inner cedar bark, when it gets wet, it still stays strong and it snapped. And they ended up further down the valley. And I'm told like today, or according to Charlie Mack, those people Nchinemqen's brother, um, are a part of another village that's located down at the other end of the lake. And the people who settled that In-Shuck-Ch are, uh, the Lil'wat are descendants of, of those people and Nchinemqen.
Cathy Jewett:That's, uh, that's a great telling of the story, and, um, I have to tell you that I found the, uh, the book, the Lil'wat World of Charlie Mack, amazing to read, um, his stories of traveling over the glaciers with traditional footwear to the ocean are, um, are really incredible. You know, I think about what we do to prepare for such a journey now, you know, with all our technology and gear and everything, and, and he just walked over, you know, with so little, what a fascinating character did, did you get to, uh, to meet him? Did you get to hear stories from him?
Levi Nelson:No. Uh, he passed away before I was born, but I, I did read the Lil'wat world, according to Charlie Mack, it's a really good book. And I just, just to hear how he saw the world, and it just fascinating the way, because he was so in tune with the land and the way he lived his life on the land and, and throughout Lil'wat territory and going to Duffey lake and, and all the different mountains that reside up the Pemberton valley and, and, and on, and a long Lillooet lake, he, he knew these areas and their different meanings, and even the spirits that reside in these certain areas.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah. Uh, really, uh, fascinating, um, uh, person and, and, and a really great read for anyone that would like to read it. You can buy it at the Squamish Lil'wat Cultural center. That's, that's a great story to hear how the, of two of you have worked together. Xwalacktun and Levi. And so now Xwalacktun, you have worked in schools for years. I think you said something like 40 years you've worked in schools. Do you remember meeting little Levi Nelson when he was in grade five?<laugh>
Levi Nelson:It? Would've been grade three.
Cathy Jewett:Oh, oh, grade three. Okay. Grade three.
Xwalacktun:Well that's. Yeah. Uh, you know, I, I actually don't because I see so many kids, I was probably seeing, you know, out of, uh, every day I was at a different district, different school, different classroom. So I covered a lot of land around here,
Cathy Jewett:Absolutely. You've influenced a, um, a lot of, of kids to become well artists. And also to understand the stories better. You're working on a project right now, uh, with another school. Can you tell us a little bit about it?
Xwalacktun:Well, I'm doing a piece for Emily Carr university, and I'm doing a piece that is that actually Chief Joe Mathias. Joe was Squamish. And my mother was five years old watching him carve this style of pole. This is what my mother was sharing. And my mother is now 91. So that's a lot of years back. And then I'm also doing a piece for Burnaby, uh, Burnaby north secondary school. And I had the students come up with ideas. What can do you want to represent your school? And what kind of stories could come out of that? So that when the next generations or three or four generations down the road, what kind of messages can you leave behind so that they can share, you know, what they can possibly do to help out in the environment in human unity, human unity, and spirituality, so that, you know, we're gonna be here still. So I think about that, cuz I was at an old school in Scotland that was probably 500 years old. There's a carving in there. And I wanted to know more about that story of that, but no one actually knew. I says, well, rather than writing, they need to share it by word of mouth. So it becomes an experience so that maybe they should use us to tell the stories each year so that the messages could always be passed on orally. So it's more of an experience amongst one another. So you create that community and I'm also doing a piece for a developer and right by, um, the Lougheed mall. And if I put a pinpoint there and do is the comfort circle around there, there's nine. What we call nations, there's Squamish, there's Tsleil Waututh there's Kwikwetlem, there's Katzie, there's Kwantlen, and you keep going around, right. There's nine of us in there. So I, when I do this piece, I want to connect us all together, cuz we had to cross paths many times in that little area, you know, because we used to gather, uh, our arbutus bark there and we used to gather elk there there's elk amongst the, in, in the area there. So, you know, there's, we had to cross paths many times, cause we're just short distance apart from one another,
Cathy Jewett:As the Squamish and Lil'wat did as well. Yes. That is part of, uh, Spo7ez is, is I believe the area where traditionally, uh, the Lil wat and the Squamish met that that's, that's the story I have heard. Levi, do you know anything about those stories?
Levi Nelson:About the Spo7ez. Yeah. What I do know is that it's located, uh, you know, further like south of Whistler by an area known as Rubble Creek where the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh and Lil'wat had a, a shared village site that um, a while back was covered by a landslide. That's what I'm heard. Yeah. So when I, I think about that when I drive through that area, you'll notice on either side of the road, there's a lot of huge boulders that look like you're driving through like some kind of rock slide and it's covered in thick moss. This is just my imagination, but I, I'm not, you know, I'm, I'm thinking that might be the remnants of the landslide. I could be wrong, but that's what it feels like to me.
Cathy Jewett:Oh, it absolutely is. Uh, I worked with, uh, local naturalist, uh, Don McClaren and he would tell the story of that's from the barrier up above. And that's why it's called Rubble Creek is cuz of all that rubble, I just wonder if there's ever been any investigation into, um, uncovering the peoples that were there and, and the signs that they left behind. It would be really interesting to know those stories. Do you know any of those stories from Spo7ez?
Xwalacktun:I don't actually, but I'm learn. I'm gonna learn. I'm just learning right now.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah. Well it's, it's really great actually to, um, um, to have both of you, um, giving your points of view and now I've interviewed both of you for the, uh, podcast. And one of the things that, um, struck me was that both of you had to sort of self-teach yourself, how to do your art. Both of you were influenced by books of art from indigenous art from, from BC. And so I think that's a really interesting connection that you didn't have someone to show you the way in person. And so you were able to find influences, um, that would, could help guide you. Levi, do you wanna, um, talk about that a little bit and then we'll ask Xwalacktun about his experience. Sure.
Levi Nelson:I think in<inaudible> when I look around at the, the artifacts that are available to us, there's not a lot by way of traditional carving in the Lil'wat style, the main focuses of, of craft come from regia making or basket weaving, um, or a lot of the artifacts that are you the, that have been given back to the nation are carved in stone and even practical tools that were like, uh, like, like a, a large net that you might cast in the lake. The floaters that keep the net afloat were carved into faces or heads or there's medicine bowls that take the, the shapes of like a frogs face there's one, um, mortuary pole that, that looks like a serpent on top with the, a kind of swirl coming down around the pole and the eyes on that were shaped like ovals. Same with the frog bowl that I saw are shaped like ovals or there, the, this other rock piece carved rock piece that's attributed to the, to Sininuk clan and the half man, half fish or in, in essence mermaid. And I've heard stories from like my aunty Lou speak about, uh, um, the, the mermaid clan or the sign. Um, and it's a figure it's this rock figure with, which has, you know, these big round oval eyes and these sort of almost like big fish lips, but, and then it, the like the human head and, and, and then the, this sort of tail like body comes up the back carved into, you know, thin
Cathy Jewett:It's interesting because as you say there wasn't, there, weren't not a lot of artifacts that you could draw on to learn about, um, the Lil'wat art. Yeah.
Levi Nelson:I think that comes, that comes from, uh, being colonized and, you know, there, there were laws put in place by the Canadian government that permitted us from practicing our traditional methods like carving, you know, a lot like as you can, as you see in museums, a lot artifacts have were looted and sold to museums, uh, in Europe and the United States here, the, at the, uh, Newton museum of natural history or like the museum of the American Indian, for instance. And now these, these objects are starting to, to get repatriated back. And so what, when it comes to our practices like carving of masks or, or welcome figures or mortuary poles, um, the way I understand it, I, I'm not too sure. The Lil'wat, we didn't have totem poles. Um, we were semi like nomadic people that moved around a lot. So I think a lot of, a lot of the, uh, the art practice was focused on, on the decoration of, of, uh, tools,
Cathy Jewett:Right. And whereas Xwalacktun, and, um, the Coast Salish people had a different experience in some ways, of course, uh, the Indian Act and the outline of potlatches had a huge effect on the pieces. Many were taken and alluded, some were even burnt and destroyed, um, which is heartbreaking to, uh, to think of it Alert Bay. Your mom'Na̱mg̱is from Alert Bay. A nd I I've certainly heard that that had a very rich, u h, potlatch tradition.
Xwalacktun:Yes. And they still continue on doing it, like when, the way I think of it is that we're also reinventing ourselves in a sense, because, you know, we're kind of grasping from one another because, you know, when I think about, because we didn't have a word for art, it wasn't to do with art. It had, when we did something, there was a purpose for it. And the purpose for it, would've been through through ceremony or through rituals or whatever we needed to do. So anything that we had at one point, you mentioned that was burnt. And I heard stories of everything was piled in front, along in front of the beach, and everything was lit on fire. So for us as Coast Salish people, maybe because we're so close to Vancouver, we're so close to that new civilization that everything was burnt right away. And we didn't get to see all that, or it wasn't documented. So in a sense, we're kind of grasping from one another and learning from one another, as we continue on in our life journey here, cuz uh, as me as an artist, I also rely on the ancestors. Cause I believe that the ancestors come through me when I design something, I just allow it to happen. I don't even think about it too much. I just sketch and just let it happen. Then I really open my eyes. Wow. I like that. That's a neat design. What am I gonna learn from that? So I'm still continuing continuously learning and whatever I learned, I share it cuz you know, after this generation of myself, what are they gonna carry? Cause my father probably carried a lot of stories and a lot of things that I don't understand now today that never was brought out, cuz I often often wondered, I should have asked more stories back, asked for more stories back when he was around or even the language, cuz there was some words in a language that you can't even, uh, describe in, in the English language, cuz it has a whole new medium meaning that we didn't get. One word could say a lot in a sense.
Cathy Jewett:But I think that, uh, it's also really important that you're telling the stories and going out to the schools to show the techniques and, and not just the technique, but the connection to uh, to the spiritual part of the stories. Because I, I know that that's a, or I don't know, I understand from, uh, from actually reading about your practice Xwalacktun, what an important part, that place in what you do.
Xwalacktun:So I focus on more about human unity. We gotta come together. I mean, we all have stories that rep say the same thing. The messages are all the same, but we tell it in a different imagery or, or how we write it out. Right? So the grassroots, we're all on this. What we call mother earth that this is our vessel. Our vessel takes us on our life journey. We have to look after it. We have to maintain balance. We to work together like we do in a canoe, we have to pull together, maintain balance, work together. Anybody that feels weak, we uplift them. We have to uplift them right away because if we don't, it weighs weight on us cuz we're gonna have to carry their weight if they were in a canoe. So it means we have to work harder to, to continue moving forward. So we have to uplift people. If they're feeling down to make them feel good and strong and be able to carry their own weight or more weight than themselves.
Cathy Jewett:That is, um, something we can all learn from for sure. And it brings me back to Spo7ez because that was a, uh, a place where we hear stories of the, the Squamish and the Lil'wat, being together. And I feel that we're blessed, um, to have had the two of you work on, on that piece, uh, together and, and give it some ground, some common ground for that hide of peace to rest on Levi. I wanna thank you very much, uh, for being here and telling us your story and also telling us the story, uh, of the flood for the, uh, from Charlie Mack, um, the way he remembers the, the story and also Xwalacktun, for telling us about your practice and, and the work that, uh, that you have done. Um, thank you both of you. You're welcome. Thanks for having me
Xwalacktun:You've up the good work Levi. Thanks. It was nice to see you. Good to see you again. Yep.
Cathy Jewett:I'm here with, Xwalacktun also known as Rick Harry on the shared unceded traditional territories of the Sḵwx̱wú7mesh and the Lil'wat peoples. So I'd like to, um, to thank you for, uh, joining us today. Xwalacktun and, uh, really wanna talk about your, um, your art practice and the influences that have led you to where you are today. You've told me before that you've been then practicing art for like 12 years or since you were 12 years old. That was it. Since you were 12, how did you get rolling?
Xwalacktun:Well, actually, uh, the carving started at 12. What I recall when I was five years old, my, my brothers and sisters were at school and I just remember felt like I was home alone, but I had a younger brother. I ended up just roaming around in their bedroom cuz they're the older brothers. So I walk in his room and saw all these drawings in his room. So I would climb up a bunk bed and lay back and look at all their drawings that were taped on the wall. And I says, well, I like that and my own. And I wanna to be able to do that. So I recall climbing down and started to draw and I haven't stopped since then at 12 I started carving. And
Cathy Jewett:So your dad was a carver, is that right?
Xwalacktun:My dad did a bit of carving, but what happened is we had, uh, uh, May Harris bring someone in to our community from the Nation who came in and he, he did a crash course over a weekend. And then when I started carving, I carved a Thunderbird head and of course he kind of helped us out, but by the time we finished as well, I like this, the carving, the carving the thunder, the thunderbird was cool. So I enjoyed that. And once he left, I just kept continued on carbon, but I didn't have anyone mentoring me after that. I just kept doing it through trial and error.
Cathy Jewett:And, and so, uh, the thunderbird was your, your first, um, piece and it's also been really big in your other art pieces as well. Can you tell me what attracts you to that, um, that story and that, um, that image?
Xwalacktun:Well, I, it just felt like I was able to do something with my hands and I enjoyed when I finished it. I saw it as well. The, I like this. It's amazing what I did, but when you look at it today, if I look at it was pretty rough carving, but it still looked pretty awesome for me at that time, at that time. Right. So it was just, you know, I didn't understand the first nations art yet, cuz you know, like for me as I was growing up, I, I was just copying, you know, there's a book on Indians and I started opening it up and I wanted to copy all that. And that was copying like Haida style, Northern style, you know, Qayqayt style. And I just started copying that work by the age of 16. And I then, uh, it was the Squamish hotel. They started selling their furniture. So my parents bought some furniture, those old furnitures, I sanded down the tall countertop and I'd start drawing the Northern style on top of it. And I would paint and I remember being in my room, painting away and everybody's upstairs watching the hockey game and I was so enthralled in my, my art piece wanted to finish it. And uh, later on I was, we had our rooms built in the basement where there's three bedrooms and there was a lot of wall spaces. So I started talking to my parents. I wanna paint some designs on these walls. Is it okay? Yeah, go ahead. So I started painting and I was actually going counter clockwise in the, in the basement. And by the time I came almost full around, uh, I started understanding the Northern style art cuz I didn't have anyone teach me how to do it. And I realized there was a process. Let's do it. The line drawn the primary lines, the primary form, the secondary form to tertiary form. Then I started learning about the colors and then I would paint it. So I never did finish that piece in that old house, that old house is torn down now. So I should have took some photographs of that when it was just half done. Cause once I realized how it was done, I'm continued in other areas and started to doing it more portable and show show showing the work
Cathy Jewett:Right. It's uh, it must be, um, a bit of a loss to see, see that, uh, art from your youth, uh, you, you can't access it anymore and you can't revisit it, but it taught you a lot.
Xwalacktun:It did. Yeah. Through trial and error and just watching and looking at someone else's artwork. But by the 1990s, I started moving into Coast Salish design where I saw Charles Elliott's work in area, which is like in the Victoria area. And uh, I was on a run following and a run. It was called the Sacred Run across Canada. And they had, uh, Russell Means and uh, Dennis Banks, these are the guys that started the American Indian movement, but they wanted to start doing something more positive. So they gathered people from around the world and started running across Canada and that they all actually ran all the continents around the world, just for three simple messages for human unity spirituality, and also for the environment. And we all ran and we just, it took us, uh, nine weeks to get to Gogna Wagni that's where it ended actually from Victoria to Gogna Wagni in Montreal area. Wow. So when I came across Charles Elliot's work, I started making changes then. And when I did a major piece here in the Ambleside park, I did it all. Coast Salish design in a big metal piece. And then I called on Charles Elliot to come witness the unveiling of it because you know, he was, uh, or to the talk that we had at, uh, Kay Meek Theater here in west Vancouver. And I, you know, I acknowledged him that he was my influence into Coast Salish design.
Cathy Jewett:And um, what did he have to say about, um, how your practice had changed and uh, did, could he see his influence in it?
Xwalacktun:Well, he could see the Coast Salish design form of it. Once I saw it, I just kind of moved into it. I looked at the forms and just started creating my own, my own work, but the, you know, I thanked him for that. Hm. And, uh, he, you know, he, he just alls he does is just smiles at you and just nods his head. Yeah. Right on. Keep it up. Right.
Cathy Jewett:That's that's great. I I've seen that piece, um, uh, on, on Ambleside and that's, uh, a thunderbird. Correct?
Xwalacktun:Yeah. Yeah. So the Thunderbird, but the shape of it is, uh, take shape of the Lions Gate Bridge. And I started telling the story, why is it called the lions gate bridge? They've named the Lions gate bridge because of the mountain. They called the lions, but we call it the Sisters. And now, uh, the story went as you know, there was two women came together and they became like sisters and they brought peace to the people. So the people were the Salish and the Haidas. So they were turned into stone because they did something great that they were turned to stone to remind us of the greatness they did. But the lines came from because of the Guinness family coming from, you know, from England, you know, the Guinness beer, I would say they built the bridge across. So, um, that became, became the Lions Gate bridge. So I just kind of wanted to focus more on about where that came from and also what was the purpose of it. So I built this piece art piece between the Squamish nation and the West Vancouver rights in a sense. It was like to me, like the peace arch. Right. So it was like border or right there on like on the border. So it's just like building communities, building with the people in West Vancouver.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah. It's a beautiful piece. And um, I think that a lot of people get to see it, uh, because it's, uh, it's on the beach. Um, it's on the walk. And so it's, uh, it's a really meaningful place for a lot of people, um, including of course you yourself. So thank you very much for that, uh, for that piece. And also, um, another piece of your said of course, people in here, uh, in Whistler are really familiar with is the flood. When we walk into the Audain, it is stunning. Um, the cylinder that, uh, reaches up to the ceiling, um, of the entrance and it's really, uh, really dramatic because you've come across this lighted bridge and then you're in this beautiful, uh, outdoor atrium. Um, and the, the piece fills it up and draws you into the museum. Um, can you tell us about how that piece came about? Yeah.
Xwalacktun:Well, Michael Audain called me into his office in Vancouver here and we sat down and he discussed with me that he wanted to have a piece with a Salish piece in front of the museum. And I lifted my hands. Thank you, Michael. You know, we need to have some Salish influence. I know that you love Northern style work, but you know, like we're here in Squamish Lil'wat territory that we need to have some Salish influence. And I raised my hands to you. Thank you for thinking about that. And I'm happy to do that work with you. So I came up with a design and I just used wooden dowls. Like I have the first one was, uh, created this piece here that looks like might be too bright.
Cathy Jewett:You can't, unfortunately you can't see it on the podcast, but um, oh, you can. Okay. No, but we can, um, we can see that, uh, what you're showing us or some early we concepts of, of how you came up with the design, how tall is the, uh, the piece?
Xwalacktun:The piece is actually 16 feet by six foot diameter. And, uh, what I wanted to do, do it all in one piece and, uh, piece was to be cut out with a water jet, but a, um, there was no, um, table big enough to cut it at that width. So we couldn't do it in, uh, one cut. So I had to do it in two cuts. If I wanted a larger table, it would've had to go to Sweden to get it cut in Sweden, but then to turn it into the shape, the cylinder shape, they didn't have it there in Sweden. They had to go to Chicago to turn it there. So it would've moved this piece. Would've moved around just to get it to that place. But, uh, I went to a, a place here in Vancouver and we said, well, we could do it in two pieces and just weld it together. And I had hummed about that because it, you know, to weld it, are we gonna see the welding marks? And that's what I didn't wanna see. He says, no, we can do it. So they welded it and they did an awesome job and made it look like one piece. He, uh, you can see welding inside, but on the outside it's they did a really good job. So I'm glad it was done here.
Cathy Jewett:So technically it was, um, a really difficult piece. But how about the story that it tells cuz the, the, the story of the flood? I just think it's really interesting. I know that the, uh, Lil wat have a flood story, um, but there's is, is a little different. And of course the Bible, um, has a flood story. So tell us about how you, uh, how you separated the elements of that story, uh, to, to tell it, uh, in that, in that post.
Xwalacktun:Yeah, because also the building was built on the flood plain area that says, Michael, we should tell the flood story here. Cause we're also, you know, close to, uh, what we call Black Tusk. That's where we had the story where the, the Thunderbird would land and create the big thunder and the big storm. And, um, so I said, well, maybe we should do a flood story. So I have on the, on the piece, I have a, a Thunderbird, I have an Eagle, I have a canoe, I have a rope piece of rope on, I have a human raising one hand up, I normally would use two hands, but in the design, I just wanted to fit everything in. So I had, um, a hand up a human being, holding their hands up and I have also a paddle stand upright with a blade facing upwards. And I have salmon swimming on the bottom. So as it goes to tell this story in a short version, is that when the flood started happening, we started taking our planks off our houses. Cause the houses were tied. They were tied with just big planks, were tied to, uh, to the building. You get almost taken down if was too hot, hot in the summer and you just take some planks off. So you get breeze through. So anyways, as the water was rising, we start putting these canoes together and started putting planks on top of one another. So actually we were almost creating like a big barge. So all these canoes were raising together with, uh, all the planks on top. So we had a place to move around and then eventually it came so high that we were had to anchor ourselves to what we call Nch'Kay today. People think of it as Mount Garibaldi. So in Nch'Kay is a, was named where the dirty water comes from, cuz the erosion of that, my runs into a Creek runs the Cheakamus river. A lot of times it's dirty water running into Clearwater. So Nch'Kay means where the dirty water i s coming from. So we were anchored to this mountain and u h, over t ime we ran o ut o f food. So we called o nto the Thunderbird. The thunderbird i s l ike t akes a form of an E agle with a crown on top, w hich symbolize its supernatural. If I take that crown off, it's an e go i n its natural form. So we a lways, when we see an E agle, we raise our hands a nd give thanks to the creator for all the things that we r eceived. And we know t hey h as has a good vision. And w hen it circles above us i n t he circle creates this invisible eye. But we believe that the creator i s now looking over us. And so we w ill raise our hands and give a b ig O C u p to e m. So, so I, after when we ran o utta food, we believe that the creator sent the eagle to gather some salmon and dropped it off i n the canoe. So in a sense, we were helping one another out c uz the E agle would like to land there and eat their salmon too. So we were k ind o f sharing that salmon. So, u h, to symbolize the canoe that was tied, there was a rope that was anchored or tied to mountain. And u h, over time, some of those canoes w ere set o f drift and they latched o nto another mountain. Today we call Mount Garibaldi a nd below that mountain, we see village names. T hat place names that were called sound like Squamish. T he h ome i s Duwamish Suquamish. You know, w e're all the same people. So anyways, u m, with t hat, there was a p addle up that symbolized"We come in peace" and we're s howing respect for one another, we're s howing respect to the creator, to the land, to the water, to other, other l iving being. And, u h, so that's w hy I was coming up with this design, but when o ur Elders would tell the story, you know, they just spoke it through w ords. So we didn't actually have it written down yet. So when we hear the great flood story, now we hear different versions of it because as we tell the story, a t times i t changes. C ause we never had that written language.
Cathy Jewett:That was really powerful to hear that whole story, um, from you. And I, I'm gonna look at that piece so much, uh, with which, uh, with the different viewpoint. Um, I've always, as you may be, um, I'm a docent at the Audain. I, I tell the story of why the building is raised up. The building is raised up because it's on a flood plain, it abuts against, uh, a training wall, which protects the village from Fitzsimmons Creek. And so it is such a great tie in to have the flood story, uh, from the Coast Salish greeting us as we come in to remind us of where we are. And particularly after we've just gone through, uh, wh what we've seen in the Fraser valley, um, and climate change and, and see the effects of, of climate change in the floods that we see this last month, we're still feeling the effects of it. Uh, highways are cut off and we need the, we need the eagle to, uh, to make us wiser and drop some food off for us. And, um, it's just really great to hear that story thinking about what's happening now. And Nch’ḵay̓did
Xwalacktun:Nch’ḵay̓
Cathy Jewett:Nch’ḵay̓, it's also known as Cheekye now Cheekye Creek, and that Creek does still run muddy, um, into the Cheakamus River. So, uh, really great to hear, um, how that, uh, how that is named and it still lives up to its name. It's a dirty creek. Yeah.
Xwalacktun:And that's why Nch’ḵay̓is coming from Nch’ḵay̓right. So it's actual the actual place. Right. And I was also heard from some Elders, you know, where we had to survive that great water flood, but they said we also had to survive another flood. And that was the flood of people that came to the land. So we're, we're surviving that flood also. So we're just kind of going with the flow, you know,
Cathy Jewett:<laugh> yeah. A great, a great analogy. Um, so, um, so Xwalacktun, um, maybe you can tell me to about how your, um, your practice had a turning point to where you became a professional artist.
Xwalacktun:Well, you know, when I, when I was told I needed to graduate from high school to get a job, I said, okay, I'll, I'll do this, I graduated. And I went out to get a job right. Soon as I graduate, I walk, I walk the earth all over the place, trying to find a job for seven months. I tried to get a job and I didn't get a job. And I'm, I'm a person. I, I know who I am. I'm a hard worker. And I just love doing it. If I'm gonna focus on doing something, I'm gonna finish it. Right. So I, um, took that from my dad. And then eventually I decided I'm gonna go down where my dad's working. I went on the booming grounds, where he was working. I went to the office and my dad walked over. He, his son, what are you doing here? He says, well, dad, I'm, I'm applying for his job here. He says, no, I don't want you here. He said, I want you to find something else. Maybe go back to school. And my mom also said that, then I had a homeschool coordinator, May Harris, May Harris say that? Why don't you go to art school? You got some talent there. I said, well, I just got outta school. I don't wanna go back into school. So anyways, uh, I did, I, I went back to school and, and it was the best thing that happened to me, cuz I just loved doing the work and, and then, uh, creating artwork. And that time went by in the flash. And then eventually I came out of that. Graduated from it became, was Emily Carr, College of art. At the time when I started, it was Vancouver. School of art became Emily Carr, college of art. And then, uh, it was asked to go to a conference in the mid, uh, it was a hot day in July. I was carrying my t-shirt. They told me come as you are. And I did, like I was wearing Adida shorts and a white shirt. I was carrying, it was hot and I'm walking down this trail towards the North Vancouver outdoor school. And I saw a bunch of people sitting on the grass there in a circle. So I walked over there and I realized that's where I was supposed to be. And one of the ladies says called me, Rick and Rick, you're not wearing any cuz everybody was dressed real nice. And I just had Adidas shorts and a t-shirt. So I heard an Elder say, oh that's safes, safes. And safes means a naked one.<laugh> so that name stuck to me for a long time. But when I was there, I eventually started working in the schools and I started doing a directive drawing, storytelling, drumming singing probably did that for 35, 40 years and just did that through like eight to nine school districts. And I moved around and uh, did that for that time. And as I was doing that work, I was doing my own work on the side. I was doing artwork in the schools and doing artwork on my own. So it was full time.
Cathy Jewett:Uh, you're sharing the wealth by doing that, just, um, uh, really inspiring the next generation. And Halak, I want to thank you so much for, for telling us, uh, your story and also, uh, the stories of your people. I think that they're important stories for us to hear and there's a lot more to hear. I hope that we can do this again. Thank you. All right. Well I'm here today with Levi Nelson from the Lil'wat Nation only today. He's from New York city. So he's gone a long way from Mount Currie to uh, New York city. And I think, uh, we might have some stories to tell about how, how you ended up, uh, being in New York city. So, uh, welcome Levi. Thank you so much for, um, for joining us today.
Levi Nelson:Thanks Cathy. Thank you for having me.
Cathy Jewett:You, uh, you grew up in Mount Currie specifically and please, uh, correct my pronunciation cuz I know I don't get the, the, huh, sound very well, but Xetolacw, um, which is a village, um, uh, which is part of the Lil'wat Nation.
Levi Nelson:Yes. So I, I grew up for, uh, part of my life in Flolow until I turned maybe 14 and then I moved to, uh, the lower village in, uh, Mount Currie, um, to my mom's. Uh, she has a little acreage there.
Cathy Jewett:All right. And now your mom, um, uh, Lois Joseph, um, is it's also, well, first of all, she is on the, uh, the Lil'wat council, but she's also very connected, um, to ensuring that the culture of Lil'wat nation is passed on to the next generation. So she's, uh, got a, a, a dance group. Um, she also creates herself. She creates costumes for them and yeah. Yeah. Um, and that was one of the things you wanted to talk about too, was, um, was the influences of, um, the women in your family on your life.
Levi Nelson:Sure. Yeah. Um, so I come from a really strong matriarchal family, if not community. Uh, when I think about the leadership roles in Lil'wat Nation, they're primarily comprised of women. And I think that is, uh, a cultural thing. And I feel that my mom she's the oldest of her, of her sisters and, and brothers. And, uh, except through she has one older brother, but when she was growing up, she was guided a lot by my great-grandmother Elina Williams. And she tells the story of my, my grandmother lean on her death bed, instructing my mom to carry on the traditions of the Lil'wat drumming and the singing and regalia making leather work, like buck skin dresses, and moccasins. And mukluks were taught to my mom by my great-grandmother Elina, who has taught so many other women in the community when she was alive, uh, this, uh, this very beautiful scale of like tanning deer hide and moose hide and creating regalia. Uh, but on, on my, on her, on her death bed, she, she asked my mom to carry on and to start a dance group because at this time back, and I believe she passed away in 1990 at the time there wasn't a lot of, uh, people wearing regalia or even dancing, um, because there was a, there was a, a lot of, uh, a lot of shame that was connected to this practice, or even just, uh, sort of being shy to wear regalia, to show the sense of, of pride and being Lil'wat because of, you know, colonialism of residential schools and the negative impacts that those have on what it meant to be an Indian or indigenous at the time back then. And, uh, you know, previous to that, I think we've come a long way, especially in our community. I feel that that new sense that found sense of pride comes, uh, a lot from my grandmother Elina telling my mom to carry on and to teach the children and the people who wanted to learn how to dance. And of course they needed, they needed regalia. So my mom was there making and pumping out all of these leather buckskin dresses for the, for the girls and the, and you know, vests and, and leather pants and, uh, headbands for the boys and, and started the dance group. And people came together to practice, but they also, at the same time were just coming o ther t o b e a community and finding a sense of pride i n, i n being together and singing and dancing and celebrating the culture. And then it just grew from there.
Cathy Jewett:And that, that had quite an influence on you as well, because you were young and at home with your mom while she was making all, all this regalia. Uh, and so tell us about the influence that, that had on you.
Levi Nelson:Yeah, well, I can remember being really young, probably still in diapers, you know, that age when you're in diapers, but you know how to walk. And I would sit and just sit at my mom's feet while she was sewing. She would be other making, you know regalia or people in the community who were getting married. She would make their wedding dresses or bridesmaid dresses, or even, um, Western shirts for bull riders who were in the rodeo. And, uh, and she had all of these kind of scraps that were hanging around. And I used to make these doll clothes from some of the, the, the cut fabric pieces, like, especially in the Western shirts they had, uh, what's called the yoke. And that shape I found was perfect for making a, a skirt. And so I would find a way to fasten that into a skirt and take another piece of fabric to make the top of it. And, and this is all without a sewing machine. So I had to find ways of, you know, using a stapler or a tape or ties. And that sort of led me down the path of, uh, falling in love with fashion, which I, which I went into immediately after high school and, uh, turned out that, that wasn't really my path.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah. So you, after high school also, and, and also with your mother's, um, influence you, you went to fashion school, but you also, uh, during that time, the Squamish Lil'wat Cultural Centre opened up and you were one of the first youth ambassadors at the S LCC, is, is that how it kind of went, you went to school and then you came back and,
Levi Nelson:Um, well, there's a, there's a bit of a, between that I, I graduated high school early at 16 years old when I was in, in back in 2001, and then I moved to Toronto to attend the International Academy of Design. And then the Aboriginal ambassador program started in 2008. So there's a, there's a bit of a space between that. I left Toronto and in September, right around 9/11, when nine 11 happened, I, I was already really, uh, depressed. I was by myself in this huge city. I was completely culture shocked. I, you know, became a sort of recluse in my bedroom there and wouldn't even go to class because I, I entered some kind of depressive state. I realized that fashion design wasn't for me, there's a lot of math involved, which I'm not gonna, I'm not good at math. And there's a, I didn't like the idea of being in one season and out the next, I, I, I also saw how competitive the fashion industry was and that I would probably more than likely end up working for somebody else. And one thing that was always my goal was to be my own boss and to, to sort of be in charge of my own craft in a sense. And so, uh, between 2001 and 2008 of the Aboriginal youth ambassador program, I was doing a lot of soul searching and I was doing a lot of also partying. So I was always, I've always been a creative person and I've always sought a creative outlet in, in ways of, of, of writing of poetry, of making, uh, clothing and making my own clothes and photography and, um, and also, you know, acting. And I thought maybe I could be an actor. So I went to acting school between like 2002 and three. And then I worked on a couple of movies and worked in Vancouver and, and had employment for a couple of years in the, in the film industry. And actually, Xwalacktun mentioned, Russell Means, I met Russell Means. I worked with him for about three months on a film called Pathfinder, where he was playing the character of Pathfinder and Pathfinder is based on this comic book where, um, this little, I think he, uh, like a, a Viking. So a long time ago, like years before Christopher Columbus ever set foot on Turtle Island, the Vikings came over and in the, the comic book, which now became a movie, um, I think it's by 20th century fox, it was directed by Marcus Nispel. He directed the one of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre movies. So it was a pretty gory film, pretty big budget. It was a lot of fun, a lot of big name act, uh, indigenous actors like Michelle Thrush was in it. And, uh, Russell Means, Nathaniel Arcan. And, uh, we filmed it in around like Squamish and buns in lake and Vancouver and in studio at the PNE. And it was, it was an amazing experience. So yeah, the stories about this, the Vikings, they come over, they go to war with the, the indigenous people on the east coast and they get slaughtered and some of them escape and head back to wherever they, they, they, they were from, and they leave behind a baby. And, uh, mother, her name was mother, uh, played by Michelle Thrush, finds this baby, uh, and names him Ghost, because he's a little, I dunno, maybe a little white baby or something, but they, for some reason he's raised, is he a baby or a child? I think he must be a child because he retains the skills of, of like Viking swordsmanship and years later when he's a man, the Vikings return and they a seek revenge on, on the, uh, the native people, the east coast. And so there's this big, like they're chasing the Black Ring Tribe, which I was a part of. And, uh, all of the, these other villages are on the run from these Vikings. And, uh, of course, you know, ghost with this swordsmanship defeats them. And I remember one night we were doing this, like dancing around the fire scene of like a victory song because we, maybe we, I think they killed like a caribou or something thing in the story, but Russell Means, uh, stood up and he made the speech about how Hollywood depicts indigenous people in a certain way. And it was, it was just very impactful. Like, I, I, I, at the time, I didn't, I didn't know he was one of the, the leaders of the American Indian Movement and that I was standing in the, in the, in the face of a legend who had become a Hollywood actor. His portrait was made by Andy Warhol. I actually saw not too long ago at the Whitney Museum. And, uh, Andy, we're holding a series of these really large scale, uh, portraits of Russell Means. And, um, I got to look through a little book and read a little bit about it, but it, yeah, he's, he's no longer alive, but he's a, he's, he's definitely legendary I'd say.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah. I think it's interesting to hear, um, hear about his influence on you because, uh, uh, Xwalacktun when I spoke to him earlier also spoke of Russell me, um, I'm gonna have to find out more about him and, and see this movie. And so, so this was a, an
Levi Nelson:Interesting, he also a Natural Born killers, the Oliver Stone film. Okay.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah. I gotta admit I'm I'm not really drawn to those kinda movies, right? Yeah. I'll have to check it out. So this was, um, a time of transition in your life, you know, you're okay. I tried this, no, that didn't work plus going to Toronto, um, which is I'm from Toronto. Um, uh, I'm so happy. I found British Columbia. I love it here. So it's a very different place and, and, um, and a really hard transition. And so you came back and you worked on the movies. You you're still, you're not an actor still, are you you?
Levi Nelson:No, I, I have the range of, of Keanu Reeves. Like I, I can't act I'm, I'm a bad actor.<laugh> so, like, I, I, I walked away from that. I, I tried it and, uh, I had a lot of fun on the few films that I did work in. I tried fashion design and I don't, I don't know. I, I just kind of lost my way for a while. And I think I found myself living, you know, back with my mom on the reserve in Mount Currie. And then she said, Hey, we're starting this program called the Aboriginal youth ambassador program, and we're building a cultural center in Whistler. Why don't you apply? So I applied and I, you know, was interviewed and, and got the job and was a part of the first Aboriginal youth ambassador group that they had there at the SLCC. You know, we got to walk through the building before it was finished, and we got to see it, uh, as a part, we, we got to attend the, the main opening and I worked there for about two and a half years. And during this time I started to, uh, drink a lot. And I, I lost my way there. And eventually moved away to the interior, with my partner to work with, uh, to work with his family who owned a couple of restaurants in the Kootenays. And it, my, my partying life just kind of escalated there as well until I had this breakdown and the restaurant one day that, you know, I shattered a plate and I was screaming. And I like, I can't be doing this with my life. There's gotta be something more than working in a kitchen. I need to do something bigger than this, that something bigger than me. And so I decided to apply to Emily Carr University and I put together a portfolio. I didn't have any drawing material. So I, I sketched a, a chief and a gas mask on the back of a 10-inch pizza box and some charcoal that I found in the drawer. And I put a, I made the smaller painting on a canvas, uh, called Wolf In Transition in, um, the Northwest coast style and did another really sort of abstract painting of these three poles that are, uh, that live at the Museum of Anthropology at UBC. And this is enough to, along with two other paintings that I had done after high school, somewhere in here in between this, I sat down and I reevaluated my life. And I said, okay, well, I'm not gonna be an actor. I'm not gonna be a fashion designer. What else could I possibly do? And I had this image of these two paintings that I did back in high school. And I thought, oh, maybe I'm a painter. Maybe this is what I'm supposed to do, included those in my portfolio or application to Emily Carr University, and, you know, filled out the application while half in the bag between applying and between getting into the school. My partying just got progressively worse. Like I, I got to a point where I couldn't quit on my own, and I would sit by the river in, in, in Salmo BC, where I was living. And I would just pray. I would pray to the Creator to, you know, help me quit. And it was answered. It was answered through a seizure when I tried to quit cold turkey one day. I didn't know that when your body is that dependent on alcohol, that if you quit cold turkey, it's actually quite dangerous. Uh, that's how Amy Winehouse died. She quit cold Turkey and her nervous system shut down. But I ended up, I ended up getting fired from my job. My mom told my partner to fire me and send me home because I was sick and I needed help, and that she was going to help me. And so he did this and I ended up in Kelowna, which is like the halfway point between Salmo and home. My younger brother, uh, took me into his place, um, where I was supposed to stay for the weekend and then leave. And he cut me off cold turkey. I agreed I wanted to quit. And, uh, you know, I had my last drink on July 25th or something like that at four in the morning. And then by like 10 a.m., I was flopping around like crazy, like a fish on the, on the floor, foaming at the mouth. And I woke up in the hospital and I had stopped breathing. And I had this near death experience where I actually saw my, my dead relatives, my auntie Doreen, and my auntie Deb, and, uh, and my Papa Albert. And they were in this bright white light<laugh> of all things. And, and they were about maybe 15 feet away from me though. They were just smiling with this beautiful love and just smiling. And I could just feel this, this immense, uh, feeling of love coming from them from this white light, but they wouldn't let me come into the light. And, uh, then I kind of like come pulled back. Um, and you know, I was watching myself have a seizure on the floor, but I was outta my body up in like the, up in the ceiling, looking down and watching this happen while the, the paramedics and, uh, you know, the, the, the police were there and the fire department and my brothers and all of this is happening while I was, uh, yeah, out of my body. And then I came to in, in the hospital and luckily my, my nurse, um, this male nurse was a, a part of the AA program. And he asked me if I wanted help and what I wanted outta life and I said, you know, I wanna live. And he said, okay, well, we're gonna help you. And he sent me a bunch of people, um, a liaison from the hospital, a, um, a medicine man from the tanha nation, uh, came to see me and brushed me down. And then I was admitted into like a, a, a program where I went into recovery. And in the midst of all this, I had got an acceptance letter to Emily Carr University<laugh>. So I went, I went from, I went into Emily Carr University with fresh eyes, completely sober and clean. And with this new, incredible ambition for life and just this motivation to, to be, to make something and to say something, not just for myself, but, uh, you know, for my people. And it's been an incredible journey from, from there to now. And, uh, I think finding sobriety and walking the good red road has changed my life so much.
Cathy Jewett:Wow. That's a powerful story. We're so happy that, uh, that you didn't follow, um, and, and meet, meet your aunties and your Papa. They told you to stay. They told you to do good things, and you are doing amazing things. So you went to Emily Carr, um, you went through this huge change in your life. Um, and actually you still have that pizza box, don't you mm-hmm<affirmative>
Levi Nelson:<laugh> yeah. It's, uh, it's, it's framed inside of like a glass shadow box, like a, like a really important piece of art inside the box. It still has like this, the pizza liner with a bit of sauce on, on it. And some, like some of those yellow corn grains that, that they put on the bottom of pizzas, which I should probably remove for archival reasons, but yeah, it's, uh, that pizza box has been archived.
Cathy Jewett:So your art from there though has, um, has really gone through so many metamorphosis because you, um, I just looking at some of yourself after the blast, um, was the show that happened at the Maury Young Arts Center it was put on by arts Whistler, and there was a Dolly influence. And yet you were using the forms of, um, of the Coastal art, right. Can you tell us about, because you use a lot of, um, different ways of expressing your art and even also collage, um, you know, pulling in pop culture and, and even images is of, of Indians from pop culture. Um, Geronimo is another one I, I saw your post today. That's another one of your themes. So tell us about how you have gone through all these different genres, cubism, surrealism, collage, um, all those things.
Levi Nelson:Back in high school, I discovered Salvador Dali. Who's a surrealist artist, um, Spaniard, and he has had a, a huge influence on the look of my, my paintings, um, after high school and Emily Carr, I, I came across, uh, Jean-Michel Basquiat, who's a N ew York abstract expression, neo, u h, n eo abstract expressionist. Who's no longer alive. And also, u h, I haven't been traditionally trained in the art of the Northwest Coast or Coast Salish art or in i ndigenous art in general. Li ke, I a m w ell aware that my work in painting is a traditional European art form. And so I consider that when I create my work<affirmative> and the different collage elements and, u h, p op culture imagery come from me, acknowledging that not only do I come from a rich cultural heritage being indigenous, I also grew up in, in a time where, you know, my youth and my generation were influenced by pop culture. And so, including images, such as, you know, like th e, the image you saw today, that's Sitting Bull th e g host of Sitting Bull, who I see as a n American icon. And on that same print is th e, a vintage Pepsi Cola, 5 cent s ign, which is also iconographic in the sense of it being very, u m, y ou know, putting Pepsi Cola and Sitting Bull for me on the same surface has to deal with, wi th t hem as, as icons in, in p op culture today. Like I ha ve, I have another painting called hunter gatherer, which, which points at snow white and, an d B ambi, and also Sitting Bull is on the same surface, because I feel that these indigenous influences of th ey're m u ch a pa rt o f my past as, u h, a s Snow White and the seven dwarfs or Bambi ar e. And so t hat's what I'm, I'm speaking to in my work.
Cathy Jewett:Some of the images you use in your collages too, are, are more like, um, uh, pop images of what people thought indigenous people were at that time as well.
Levi Nelson:Right? Yeah. So I'm, I'm really fascinated with stereotypes and how they lend themselves to this overall idea or fantasy of the Native American and the American Indian. And it's, it's a sort of zoomed out look or survey of how indigenous people have been depicted from, uh, from the outside. I find when I'm adding other or elements like the, like the ovoid of the Northwest Coast culture, or even traditional rock paintings or pictographs from the<inaudible> nation, then mixing it with splattered paint or putting it on the same surface as, uh, you know, know I have a, I have a silk screen print called Techno Hybrid, which has Northwest coast Coast Salish and pictographs on the same surface. And this to me speaks to today of, uh, this blending of, of cultures. Like I, I learned how to do Northwest Coast art from, and I'm still learning. I'm still very new at it. I learned how to do it from a book by Bill Holm called, uh, Northwest Coast Indian Art, which has, I, I'm pretty sure influenced a lot of indigenous artists in, uh, particular in British Columbia, because there's a lot of, uh, indigenous artists who aren't necessarily from the Northwest coast that practice in this style. And for me, I like to, I like to take it and, and put my own spin on it through a contemporary indigenous lens and style
Cathy Jewett:Being in New York city. It's very different from, um, there is, it is a different culture, um, in the US, from, from Canada. What are you finding as far as being an indigenous artist in New York city compared to some of your, um, your, your contemporaries, um, your peers that you are you're at Columbia University right now? Um, a Masters of Fine Art. So how, how does your experience compare to theirs,
Levi Nelson:To other people in my cohort? Yeah, well, it's a, it's a pretty healthy blend of, of individuals. Um, but I'm the only indigenous person. And I, I'm sure that's not hard to imagine. Uh, you, you know, half of the group is probably white artists and then the other half are a mix of artists from Mexico and Japan and China. And I think in terms of painting or, uh, being here in New York, I feel, I, I don't, I don't think the world needs another white artist, to be honest. I think that contemporary art has come to a place where in painting, especially there there's been talk like people have been saying, oh, painting is over with, it's gone as far as it could possibly go. And I kind of disagree with that. I think there's are that there's other artists, particularly BIPOC artists, uh, black indigenous and people of color who have a lot more to say with painting and with contemporary, with contemporary art in particular. And when they say that painting is dead, then I think they're really just referring to, you know, the, the typical white male artist hero who has been placed at the center of the art market for so long. But, you know, I saw this YouTube video by, uh, Hennessy Youngman, who he did this. He went to, he went to Columbia University and he did this YouTube project where he's talking about, uh, how, if you wanna be a successful artist, you have to be an angry N word. And he goes on about how the, the art market is now looking at artists to, to, uh, artists, particularly artists of color, and in order to, um, to have new art, but also as a way to, uh, like he said that they like to exoticize us and look at us in, in an exotic way and this doesn't particularly bother me. I think, in the United States here there's room for it. And, uh, curators are looking for, um, ways of pushing BIPOC artists, the forefront, because they ha they do see the quality of the work that we do, the messages that we are trying to say and where we're at as a society today, our voices are relevant and people want to hear what we have to say and, and, and experience to a degree what life is like from our end and in, in Canada, see that the indigenous artists have a lot more influence. They have a lot more room for voice. Um, and in a way we have entered into the mainstream, and we're just now beginning to break into the mainstream because, uh, people are starting to, to become aware of the harsh histories that have befalled my people in one example would be through the discovery of unmarked graves at Kamloops Indian Residential School, which just swept across the nation of, of the, the discovery of more of these unmarked grades. But also as a, as a, as this gigantic news story that has affected non-indigenous people to a very, you know, in a very impactful way that we have started to gain notice and voice because of this, it's a very harsh reality that we've already known about, but now that everybody knows about it, they wanna hear our story. And I, I think that is one positive that is coming out of that.
Cathy Jewett:You've got a, a painting behind you. Um, when I look, I see the Salvador Dali, I think, um, yeah, the
Levi Nelson:Sky, I, I took that sky from a Salvador Dali painting.
Cathy Jewett:Can you describe it and, um, tell us about it because it's, um, to me, you know, I, I see rows of houses on either side they're, they're very much alike, and there's an animal on the foreground. Tell us about, um, this painting and, um, and why you, why you made it,
Levi Nelson:The title of this painting is called dead horse, and it's from a series that I'm entering into called Good Old Government Housing. And I just, I, I started this series because I started photographing this particular style, one story house that is found on every Indian reservation in a lot of ways in a lot of different communities is dilapidated. Uh, but I started photographing these different views from, you know, Alberta and in Northern British Columbia, and even on my own reserve and discovered that this house is the same on every single reserve. And I wanted to start to, to, uh, explore this idea, uh, Kent Monkman has this painting called The Scream, which is this very powerful painting that I'm sure a lot of people have seen it. It has one of these houses in the background, but it also has a lot of figures in it, uh, figures of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police of nuns of, uh, priests. And they're ripping indigenous children away from their screaming mothers. And for me, this is a very violent painting. It's very powerful. And it says a lot about Canada and I wanted to also address certain issues, but in a subtle, a more subtle manner by not including figures, uh, because I think this house on its own says a lot. And I think the house by itself is also, uh, depicts the violence of Canada in a very real way, but the, I wanted to include the dead horse in it. Um, there's a dead horse. That's pretty much decayed on this gravel road. You could find it on my Instagram page. It's a ribcage is showing it's skull is showing through the flesh is rotting off of bit. One of its legs is detached. And even up in the greenhouse there, you could sort of see like the, the figure of a ghostly child looking out the window and in another house, there's a, there's a Canadian flag, but it's this one particular Canadian flag that has an indigenous man with feathers in his hair, in the center of it to, uh, the point at Canada. And of course the gravel road that runs down the middle. And to me, this is a sort of surrealistic painting that's done in a, in a real manner or style. And just wanting to talk about, uh, how, okay. Moving to New York. I, I came to the astonishing realization that indigenous people live in segregation. That's what Indian reservations are. They're a form of segregation. And when I, it took me until I moved to New York back in August to actually realize this. And so that's what this painting, that's how this painting started. I wanted to, to address that issue of how we're sort of pushed and moved out of the way so that large, uh, corporations could come in and, and take the natural resources. There's, there's a lot, there's a lot, uh, to say about that. And yeah, the Indian Act has a lot to do with it.
Cathy Jewett:Yeah, it does. And, um, you know, Bob Joseph has certainly done a really great job. I think of helping people like me, um, understand a little bit more about the, um, about the Indian act and the truth and reconciliation points, um, as well. And so it's really great also to see someone using art, to tell us about these stories. They're hard stories to listen to, and there are stories that people have known for decades, and it is astounding that it has taken this long for people to, uh, to hear those stories. So thank you for telling those and, and just, um, uh, unfortunately we're kind of coming to the end of our time, but I, I just want to, um, first of all, congratulate you on the, um, the Columbia University MFA program it's very prestigious you're, you're telling these stories to a much broader audience there. And how is the uptake? What are they hearing? And, um, how do they, are they receptive to the stories?
Levi Nelson:Yeah, well, I I've had, I've had, uh, a couple of group critiques. One was with, uh, well, the group critique leader, who is a professor here named Shelly Silver. She's a filmmaker. And another was with my mentor, um, were assigned mentors, two mentors per semester, uh, David Humphreys. And they both, uh, wanted me to, okay. I like to start a group critique by having a cold read and just seeing what everybody in the group thinks about the work, how, how it's coming across, but they both wanted me to explain in the beginning, the history of, of what is behind the painting. And I didn't really like that. Uh, it felt, um, well, Shelly Silver wrote to me in an email and she said, you know, there's not a lot of people who know the history of what happened to, uh, American Indians or Native Americans is what we're called here in the United States. And I, I wrote back to her in the email and I said, well, then, you know, that that's been the plan all along that I think the fact that you guys don't know about our history and don't know what happened to us was, was the very point, you know, to, to push us onto Indian reservations and to keep us there is, uh, you know, don't feel bad about it. It's, it's, we, we kind of inherit these histories that happened to us through governmental legislation, but, um, David Humphreys also, he, he wanted to explain, um, the history of it. And I, I kind of said, you know what, I, I prefer to have a cold read. He also wanted to cut my time in half from 20 minutes to 10 minutes. And I was a little upset about it at first until I was listening to this artist talk, this act, uh, uh, Jesse Reeves, who said, you know, when people don't know what to think about your art, then your art is doing something productive. And that's a good point.
Cathy Jewett:I, I think that the way I, I would, uh, like to maybe wrap this up is recognize, uh, that you are, uh, a contemporary indigenous artist that is having a really, uh, broad impact in the art world. And so I, I really congratulate you for that. And, um, it's just so wonderful, um, to see, um, and I would say to people, if you wanna see, uh, more of Levi's art is to go on this Instagram page
Levi Nelson:Levi Nelson dot artiste or you can check out Levi Nelson.ca I have my own website. Awesome. All right. I just add in there, the painting behind me, I entered out of, uh, I entered a, into a magazine called New American Paintings and out of 1500 applications. Um, I was chosen, so I'm gonna be in the next issue of New American Paintings that is set to hit news stands next month.
Cathy Jewett:Awesome. Well, uh, hope we can find it at Armchair Books.<laugh> hope. All right. Thank you so much. And you're, I hope we can, um, continue the conversation.
Mayor Jack Crompton:I think that it's fair to say that the longest episode in the history of The Whistler Podcast deserved every minute save maybe the first 15 of you and I going back and
Cole Stefiuk:Forth. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very good interviews, great conversations and, uh, incredible stories as well too. It was, it was honestly, it was a joy to be part of that call and like in the background, like a fly on the wall for it, and I listened to it again, it's even better. So,
Mayor Jack Crompton:Yep. It's well, I, I think to shorten up this episode, we could finish now. Yeah. Let's and we could say, please tune in again to The Whistler Podcast and send us your ideas about what you'd like to hear on the whistle podcast. We wanna
Speaker 6:Share with you what matters to you about Whistler. And so I'm at facebook.com/ Mayor Jack Crompton, and you can find Cole at mountain FM whenever you want. So thanks for listening. He's Cole. I'm Jack. This was The Whistler Podcast.